01-01-2003 23:54									#1
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It becoming fairly obvious that ND, Lux, Roleplay and us are on the same continent. While we are going to have to go to war with them eventually, war at this early on would be to the detriment of the warring civs as the other two would take advantage of that period to concentrate solely on REXing.

I propose we make contact with Lux and Roleplay asap and propose a tech consortium between our 4 civs where each civ researchs one tech and gives it to each of the other three on completion.

Example:
Us: Research Horsebackriding
Lux: Researches Ironworking
ND: Reseraches Mysticism
Roleplay: Researches Writing

The Agreement simply means that each civ researches one tech and in return they get three back.

We could then agree to a second 1 for three swap towards the conclusion of the first tech pact and so on.

This would eventually give our 4 civs a HUGE tech lead over the other three.

	02-01-2003 02:38									#2
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I want to know - have we actually discovered the wheel yet?

	02-01-2003 02:45									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 I want to know - have we actually discovered the wheel yet?

Yep, we're 26 turns away from finishing Horseback Riding.

	02-01-2003 19:00									#4
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Response from Togas:

quote: We've also contacted Lux. We just need to contact you guys. If you send a warrior along the coastline you'll meet our guy. He's in the jungle headed north. You want a 4 way pact? Frankly, I don't understand why. This is a far too peaceful move from you guys. We need to get on the same page here. There's going to be an early war of some sort and someone is going to have to be the victim. My people could get involved or we could stay out. Just let me know because I think we could be a very useful military ally to you guys in wars with either of your neighbors. --Togas

	02-01-2003 19:02									#5
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Response from Borc:

quote: Hello GhengisFarb! I posted your message in our forum and we will start to discuss the idea of the QUAD PACT in our parliament!

Response from Trip:

quote: Consider this PM an official introduction of Lux Invicta to Glory of War. We have replied to your trade offer with an offer of our own, and hopefully it will be to your liking. It is late this night, so hopefully we can discuss matters tomorrow more thorougly. A spell in the chatroom or simply through PM will suffice. Yours, Trip, Administrator of Lux Invicta Demo Game

	02-01-2003 19:25									#6
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Well, no one appears to be violently against it... good sign...

	02-01-2003 20:07									#7
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Traded straight up swap with Lux: The Wheel and Warrior Code for Bronzeworking and Pottery.

	03-01-2003 23:52									#8
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We don't need no stinking libraries, or temples. These builds only help us when we get to Chivalry. We can get more milage from taking cities, what do we need with a 50% boost in science when we can have twice the cities?

	04-01-2003 00:59									#9
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quote: Originally posted by realpolitic We don't need no stinking libraries, or temples. These builds only help us when we get to Chivalry. We can get more milage from taking cities, what do we need with a 50% boost in science when we can have twice the cities?

I hate to burst your bubble, but we can't get Chivalry until we have ALL the techs from this Age except for Republic and Monarchy so they are required for us to get Chivalry.

	04-01-2003 02:01									#10
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My points are:
1) Chivalry is a long way off - if we aquire more cities we'll be able to get the 20 or so techs between us and Chivalry FASTER than with cooperation.
2) Those 20 techs will require roughly 150 turns to get, so aren't we better off developing a strong shield base?
3) If we get Chivalry 10 turns later, but produce 30% more shields, we're still better off.

	07-01-2003 22:20									#11
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Latest on the tech situation:

quote: Picahulu wrote on 06-01-2003 17:27: GhengisFarb, my team decided to join the technology pact you proposed, as we also think we all should work together to achieve a great advantage to the other teams. We're currently developing Iron Working and will be finished soon. After that we're going to start developing Mathematics. Please inform us about your teams' decisions what to research next. Concerning your border violation we consider this to be an act of espionage and we must demand that this won't happen again. Please be warned that we're going to destroy any units which trespasses our land in future, as long as no Right of Passage has been worked out. Yours, Picahulu, Ambassador of Neu Demogyptica

This brings the situation to where all four civs haved expressed interest in the tech coordination.

I sent the message out today:

quote: ND just informed me that they are now interested in the tech sharing idea (first email I had gotten from them in a while I was beginning to get the idea they had cut off diplomatic relations with me) Here is the chart with the techs everyone is researching now and what they would like to research next. I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by sending this as I don't see how this is going to destroy anyone's gameplan. ND has stated they wish to research Mathematics next. As my team researched the cheapest tech of the lot we would like to research Mapmaking to make up for it so that we are contributing our full share. Roleplay is researching the most expensive tech so I woudl not have a problem with them researching one of the lower cost ones. This is not an Official Diplomatic message, just a message to start some organization so that we can start to get on the same page so to speak. It is my philosophy that this tech coordination in no way affect diplomatic or political discussions. If one civ declares war on another civ so be it, but the tech thing continues. If Lux and ND go to war (example only, not trying to start a war) then Lux will still get the research ND did and vice versa it will simply be transferred through a non-aligned party. What are your teams views on this? I am going to try to get a consensus from my team. I also envision that immediately upon researching your assigned tech you give it to the other teams. This would eliminate the desire of one team to choose a specific tech for a Wonder and hold on to it to get an advantage over the other three.

I would like to get Mapmaking as Lego appears to be to our west over the water and I would like build a galley to make contact. Galleys will also give us a tactical alternative for future wars and campaigns on our own continent.

	08-01-2003 01:03									#12
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Togas has informed me they want to research Mapmaking and while I have little trust for them and their plotting with Lux, I would like to use the agreement to get as much tech as possible. We can't research anything but Mysticism until we get Ironworking and Writing.

If we get one of their techs before ours I would suggest Construction or Literature.

Roleplay IS trying to get Lux and ND to form a triple alliance against us. I have heard as much from members of Lux. And insinuations from ND.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 08-01-2003 at 01:11

	08-01-2003 02:52									#13
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If a 3 vs 1 pact has been locked in, I say we go out in a blaze of glory, and take roleplay out now.

Archer / Sword / Horseman rush.

Or ..

We do some serious diplomacy with ND.
Riders & Ansars, and we take over the continent.
With a non aggression pact signed now and until military tradition.


Having a pact against us was not really unexpected given our open claim to be warmongerers.

Lux and ND are smart...they will want to take us out before we get Riders. We need a counter offensive now, and possibly have an ancient age war.

	08-01-2003 05:00									#14
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I think you could be right...

How about a conspiracy theory FAM thread???

I'll go make one.

	08-01-2003 06:13									#15
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We have to be very, very careful. This 3 way pact they are working on is a result of Roleplay twisting the minds Lux and ND and using our own words against us.

We should realize that Roleplay is some kind of evil genius.

We must be prepared to eliminate this Axis of Evil.

	08-01-2003 07:14									#16
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** Removed and put into the Conspiracy Thread **

	09-01-2003 02:08									#17
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Have you gotten any official replies saying that their teams are definatly in?

	09-01-2003 04:26									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Have you gotten any official replies saying that their teams are definatly in?

Only definite is from ND above.

	09-01-2003 05:01									#19
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IIRC Togas's email was sort of a stall...
He wanted to more info because some civs will study better than others....etc etc.

Then perhaps we send out a deadline. Get an "In Principle" agreement now..divide up the techs...and hash out the details later.

ie...
While the pact is in place, is there an embargo on the other teams ?
Some civs will build Libraries which increase their science...should they be compensated ?

	09-01-2003 08:31									#20
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I would say that each tech assignment be tracked by number.

This first one is tech assignment one. Upon completion the tech should be shared with the other 3 civs.

If someone completes tech assignment 2 they do NOT share it with anyone who has yet to complete tech assignment 1.

Thus you can only drag your feet so much.

	10-01-2003 01:52									#21
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ok, propose that.

	10-01-2003 02:28									#22
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb ...We should realize that Roleplay is some kind of evil genius.

What did you expected from a team led by a lawyer and a politician?

	10-01-2003 02:36									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Aro What did you expected from a team led by a lawyer and a politician?

A little Luxian (I'm in pretty good with Lux as they are depending on me to create their anime leaderhead set) who shall remain nameless told me Lux and Roleplay are signing a defense alliance. Supposedly it has no effect if one or the other goes to war, but requires the other to declare war if they are attacked.

An interesting clause is that if any civ considered to be an ally of one of them goes to war then the other civ cannot fight against that ally.

If we were to somehow make an arrangement with Lux to be "allies" against ND, then we could use that to prevent Roleplay from siding with ND.

DO NOT mention this to anyone outside GoW! I don't want my pigeon getting in trouble.

And while we're at it, we should be very careful what we send to the other teams. I've heard that both Roleplay and ND have forwarded diplomatic messages and emails sent to them to some of the other teams.

	10-01-2003 04:17									#24
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb ...DO NOT mention this to anyone outside GoW! I don't want my pigeon getting in trouble.

No problemo.

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb ... Lux and Roleplay are signing a defense alliance. Supposedly it has no effect if one or the other goes to war, but requires the other to declare war if they are attacked. An interesting clause is that if any civ considered to be an ally of one of them goes to war then the other civ cannot fight against that ally. If we were to somehow make an arrangement with Lux to be "allies" against ND, then we could use that to prevent Roleplay from siding with ND.

Agreed. Meanwhile, we should build some troops. “Compared with these guys, our military is weak…” I mean, we can't trust RP or Lux entirely, they can maneuver DG to attack us. We need to be prepared.

	10-01-2003 04:19									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Aro Agreed. Meanwhile, we should build some troops. “Compared with these guys, our military is weak…” I mean, we can't trust RP or Lux entirely, they can maneuver DG to attack us. We need to be prepared.

Don't worry, once the other two camps are built we will be looking for ways to throw away our troops.

	21-01-2003 01:23									#27
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TECH STATUS UPDATE
As best I can tell.

ND is researching Mathmatics(approx 12 turns away)
Lux is researching Mystisism (approx 20 turns away)
Roleplay is researching Writing(approx 10 turns away)
We are researching Horseback Riding (finish next turn)

ND, Lux, and Roleplay all have Ironworking.

Roleplay may have Mysticism.

There are no techs for us to research next turn that aren't already being researched. I suggest we go 100% gold and offer ND and Lux 1/3 of the gold we produce until a new tech opens up for Mathmatics and Mysticism.

This way we don't waste beakers and each of our three teams comes out with a little gold.

Last edited by GhengisFarb on 23-01-2003 at 04:24

	21-01-2003 07:34									#28
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And in return, they give us those techs ?

How does the trade work ?

ND have virtually pleaded with us not to give Lux Horseback Riding....but this deal is locked in right ?

Regs

	22-01-2003 01:42									#29
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Yes, the deal is locked in. If we were to not give Lux horse riding, I imagine we would be at war or close to it. But it might be beneficial, with 2 on 1 on Lux. It could be just as beneficial the other way, 2 on 1 on NDG

	22-01-2003 02:36									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Yes, the deal is locked in. If we were to not give Lux horse riding, I imagine we would be at war or close to it. But it might be beneficial, with 2 on 1 on Lux. It could be just as beneficial the other way, 2 on 1 on NDG

You need to hammer home the point that they CANNOT trade Horseback to Roleplay unless they give us the tech (Writing) they get from Roleplay.

The initial deal was that each civ researched one tech and give it to the other three and Roleplay broke the agreement.