02-01-2003 04:28									#1
	Gangs of New York Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I just saw this movie last night and it didn't make one bit of sense. They make New York city off to be just one big street brawl, and if you step out your front door, you're bound to get slugged by some random person for no reason.

SPOILER!






It starts out with a big street fight between some Irish immigrants and some Natives English Americans who want them out. The fight is pretty cool, but really gruesome. Picture a street fight where everyone is armed with butcher knives and axes. Then we see little leo dicaprio watching his father die, after which he is sent to reform school for 16 years. Once he gets out, he wanders around the city looking for a gang to join and randomly sees all the people from his father's old gang, and 16 years later, still recognizes them. Amazingly though, he ends up joining the native gang that killed his father, and the boss loves him.

Then they show this gang setting fire to a building, and the fire brigade shows up to put it out. Then another fire briagde shows up, and the first briagde, instead of appreciating the help, decides to brawl with the other brigade and forget about the fire.

Many fights later...

Leo is exposed as being Irish, and his father's son. The Native gang is now against him. So some politician who I never did quite figure out who it was, comes to Leo and says he wants a new friend in the five points (where most of the movie takes place) because he had formerly been allied with the native gang. So then they have this Irish guy run for sherriff for some reason, and he is about to win the election, but then the native boss kills him. So then leo and a big group of irish people are standing at the docks with candles mourning him apparantly. They are met by the native gang who says he'll come back later. So now they plan a big brawl, and just when you think leo is creating a mob to fight the natives, he is actually forming an anti conscription mob, and this is when the movie gets really crazy. Him and his mob, and lots of other mobs, go through the streets and just set everything on fire they can see - they smash windows, hang people, whatever they can do to cause a ruckus. Then after the whole city is on fire, I guess Leo decides its time to confront the natives, so he takes his mob to the designated spot to meet them. Just then, the army shows up to put down the riots. While Leo and the Natives are about to showdown, a cannon ball from a gunship in the harbor happens to land right in the middle of the fight. Apparantly, Leo and the Native boss were blown into the same pile of rubble because the scene switches to them both lying almost dead next to eachother. They get up for one last crippled fight to the death, and of course, Leo wins.

The End.

I liked it though, I'd go see it again. It was just f*cking wierd.

So go see Gangs of New York. Now!

	02-01-2003 04:38									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

http://r2.gsa.gov/fivept/fphome.htm

They did a couple shows about the movie and the history of the 5 points area on the History Channel. From what the History Channel described the movie was kind of accurate. Maybe some local New Yorkers could provide some insight.

	02-01-2003 04:44									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Sprayber http://r2.gsa.gov/fivept/fphome.htm They did a couple shows about the movie and the history of the 5 points area on the History Channel. From what the History Channel described the movie was kind of accurate. Maybe some local New Yorkers could provide some insight.

I know New York was rough, but you have to see the movie. Its just insane.

And not even just the fighting, that was just a bonus. The plot, characters, fighting, everything was just madness. It went in so many different directions in so little time.

EDIT: And that site you listed says this:

quote: To outsiders, Five Points was a frightening slum; from the inside it was a thriving working-class neighborhood.

Anyways, you have to see the movie.

	02-01-2003 04:51									#4
	Support Apolyton

quote: Maybe some local New Yorkers could provide some insight.

..they'd have to be VERY old to give any real insight

	02-01-2003 05:00									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

yes very old. I didn't read the spoilers. I may see this movie tomorrow.

	02-01-2003 05:06									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Dissident yes very old. I didn't read the spoilers. I may see this movie tomorrow.

Oh, you won't be disappointed. Be sure to post here when you do.

I liked it, it was kind of like a Fast and the Furious, only in Civil War New York with immigrant street gangs and no cars.

	02-01-2003 05:07									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

spoiler(highlight to read): Isn't this the kind of thread the spoiler box was implemented for?

	02-01-2003 05:13									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

This is exactly the thread the spoiler box was meant for.


OTOH, i want to see the movie. It looks good, even if it is a bit unrealistic.

	02-01-2003 05:14									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet spoiler(highlight to read): Isn't this the kind of thread the spoiler box was implemented for?

We have spoiler boxes? How do you make them?

Threadjacker

	02-01-2003 05:15									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

how unrealistic is it? I can't imagine it is that much. It is based off a true story I think. But of course being a hollywood movie they have to dramatize it.

	02-01-2003 05:16									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just put spoiler and /spoiler in the square brackets.

You should have been able to see how it was done when you quoted my post.

	02-01-2003 05:17									#12
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by trickey This is exactly the thread the spoiler box was meant for. OTOH, i want to see the movie. It looks good, even if it is a bit unrealistic.

It wasn't even that it was so unrealistic, I mean, it COULD have happened I suppose. It just seem unlikely. It was just that it was so insane.

Now, granted, I was a bit, shall we say, high, during the movie. So that may have blown it kind of out of proportion for me. But thinking back on it it still seems like 3 hours of madness.

	02-01-2003 05:19									#13
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Dissident how unrealistic is it? I can't imagine it is that much. It is based off a true story I think. But of course being a hollywood movie they have to dramatize it.

Its more that they just don't do a good job of explaining whats going on. Things just happen out of nowhere. I'm not too familiar with Five Points history, like the majority of people who will see the movie, so I think they should have taken it into more consideration. Although it just added to the madness, so I'm glad they didn't

	02-01-2003 05:20									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Oh, and did I mention I watched it off of a bootlegged tape I bought in the subways in Boston? You know the kind, where the guy goes into the theater with a camera and sells it before it goes on tape.

Maybe that didn't help either

	02-01-2003 05:37									#15
	Suffering from ads?

Just got back from seeing the movie. I agree, this was a pretty good movie, though it got really confusing at points. That politican you were talking about was Boss Tweed, an infamous NY politician known for steeling vast amounts of money from NY. But yes, that the one of the most chaotic movies I have ever seen, it was hard to tell what was going on at points. One thing though, why couldn't they have gotten an Irish guy to play the Irish leader instead of DiCaprio? Oh well, at least they got someone from another Catholic immigrant group.. I'd reccomend this movie though, just so long as you are ok with violence. Gangs of New York is a very violent movie.......

	02-01-2003 06:48									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Oh, ok Boss Tweed. I'm not familiar with him... what exactly was his position? It almost seemed as though he was the mayor, but he couldn't be.

Could he?

	02-01-2003 07:13									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Oh, ok Boss Tweed. I'm not familiar with him... what exactly was his position? It almost seemed as though he was the mayor, but he couldn't be. Could he?

He was mayor of New York.

	02-01-2003 07:56									#18
	Put an end to popups!

I definately want to see it.

But how much is historicaly correct? Did the Irish and the native english/dutch (poor indians.. :sad: ) really kill each other so much? Was there really this psycho gang boss who ruled on high? Who was he?

	02-01-2003 09:04									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by aahz_capone I definately want to see it. But how much is historicaly correct? Did the Irish and the native english/dutch (poor indians.. :sad: ) really kill each other so much? Was there really this psycho gang boss who ruled on high? Who was he?

Well, I know they killed eachother and formed gangs to kill others and protect their own.

But I'm not sure if it happened to the level the movie depicts.

	02-01-2003 09:56									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

One big thing back then in New York was animal spectacles and torture fights -- similar to the old Roman spectacles.

Bear Baiting was a popular spectator sport, and sadly cruel. They would chain the bear down and have him fight several dogs at once.

Another sport was rat fighting, where they put a dog into the pit and have him fight up to 100 rats at a time.

Last edited by Ted Striker on 02-01-2003 at 10:02

	02-01-2003 10:00									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

"the evening would commence with bear-baiting, badger and coon drawing, wolf-hunting and rat-killing." The bear was baited by five dogs until he caught them in his paws and crunched them half to death, amid the yells and cheers of the assembled fancy...

http://www.historyhouse.com/in_history/rats_2/

	02-01-2003 10:04									#22
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker "the evening would commence with bear-baiting, badger and coon drawing, wolf-hunting and rat-killing." The bear was baited by five dogs until he caught them in his paws and crunched them half to death, amid the yells and cheers of the assembled fancy... http://www.historyhouse.com/in_history/rats_2/

They showed rat fighting in the movie, but only for a split second.

	02-01-2003 13:09									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I haven't seen the movie -- God only knows when it will get to Turkey -- but I have read Luc Sante's book Low Life, which is a history of crime, vice and subcultures in 19th century New York. It's brilliant; anyone interested in such things should definitely seek it out (Sante was a technical advisor on Gangs of New York, IIRC). Given some of the history sante recounts, it sounds like Scorsese wouldn't really have to exaggerate all that much.

The best event Sante recounts, however, sounds like it didn't make it into the movie. Some time in the 1840s or 1850s, the State Government of NY decided that the NYC police were too corrupt and thuggish to continue policing the city (which appears to be true, although there decision was also politically motivated by the kind of City/Upstate rivalries that still pepper NY politics). The state legislature voted do disband the entire police force , and then send a new one down from Albany. The new force marched down from Albany on foot and, upon their arrival, were met by the not-at-all-disbanded NYC police. What followed was a riot between the two police forces, which lasted for days as the two sets of men in blue fought it out in the streets of New York like warring guerilla factions. Meanwhile, of course, New York's considerable criminal population had quite a holiday.

Low Life by Luc Sante. Check it out

	10-01-2003 12:25									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

OK i finally got around to seeing this today.

Excellent movie!! I loved it. This will probably be a movie that goes in my DVD collection. I'll have to see how it ages over the next few months though.

I felt it was an interesting time period and an interesting setting. It would help if I knew more about New York City, but I know the basics so I wasn't lost or anything.

Don't see this movie if you don't like the sight of blood - or fake blood.

They say it's a flawed masterpiece, but I can't find anything wrong with it right now. The plot isn't that original. It's been done before in these types of movies. I suppose it is the setting which makes it unique. I'm always excited about movies when I first get out. Of course then sometimes I read negative comments from other people, and I start to think it isn't that good . Because I rarely find mistakes in movies, but when other people point them out I start to realize the movie isn't that good. As of now I rate this movie 5 stars out of 5 stars. It may slip to 4 1/2 stars out of 5 in a week or so though after I contemplate it more (and read negative comments )

	10-01-2003 12:33									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I didn't find it confusing at least most of the movie.

The endind was a little confusing. Because even though they did mention conscription throughout the movie, that was more of a footnote. The main motivation seemed to be DiCaprio wanting revenge and the power stuggle for control of the five points area.

So what I take from the movie is Di Caprio had a mini battle in the midst of all the other rioting over conscription. But I'm still not entirely sure what Di Caprio's dispute with the Butcher had to do with the anti-concription riots. How much influence did DiCaprio have on the anti-conscription riots? He doesn't even mention the issue of concription.

but up till the end, I followed the movie easily.

	10-01-2003 12:57									#26
	Suffering from ads?

Hard to say WRT to Dicpario's character and the anticonscription riots Dissident. In spite of the Confederate sympathizers on Apolyton, most Americans see see the US as the just side in the civil war, so in order to keep Leo seen as the good guy they probably didn't want to keep him as too involved with the anticonscription riots. Also notice how they had the mobsters attack colored people(even the colored orphanage) to make sure it didn't make the Federal troops look too bad when crushing the gangs.

The reason I thought this was a great movie was its great sense of "there"ness. It really felt like they did a good job of showing 1863 New York and it covered history that I was barely familiar with. The people I know who didn't like it seemed to not like it because of they felt the plot was insufficient- and I guess they are right that there is nothing too special about the plot involving the characters. But it does a great job of creating a historical feel for 1863 New York and that is what I really liked about it- for me in this case the setting made the movie. (From what I understand, this one is pretty good on accuracy. I heard Scorcese was advised by one of the experts on the history of New York.) I also particularly liked as an Irish person- you don't hear too much about Irish-American history and I liked it that this movie focused so much on them.

One main problem with the movie though was Dicpario. He did an alright job, but he just didn't seem to convince me he was a street thug. He just seemed like any other hero transplated in from any other movie, not a hard core city gangster...

	10-01-2003 13:28									#27
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I agree with you on the sets. The movie looks beautiful (depite it being in the slums ). Visually this movie is stunning. This along with the LOTR movies are some of the best looking movies I have seen in many years.

I thought DiCaprio is alright. Good enough to make up for Titanic . His accent wasn't as consistant as I would like- but it wasn't that big a deal. Daniel Day Lewis is getting most of the buzz. And rightfuly so. His performance was great.

Just looked at imdb. I didn't realize that was Cameron Diaz! I'm so used to her having a certain look, I didn't recognize her . I suppose that bodes well to her acting. Although I felt there some actresses who could have done it better. But still a good job despite being another american who can't do the accent. Maybe they could have went with a real irish babe for her.

And I did believe DiCaprio as a thieving gangster. He just looks like thief . At least in the movie he did. As a tough guy he probably didn't pull it off as well as some others could have. He did look more bulked up in this movie though. And right now I can't think of any young actors masculine enough (yet can still fit the part) to pull this off. Most of these young actors now days are pretty boys- and many don't have a build. The one's that do have a build wouldn't fit the role- like Vin Deisal.

	10-01-2003 13:49									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just got done reading the first page of reviews on imdb.

most people seem to hate it .

I suppose they are right about some things. But even greats like Scorcese probably gets bullied by producers to cast people like DiCaprio and Cameron Diaz. What can I say.

I just can't see why they hate it so much.

	10-01-2003 14:48									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

spoiler(highlight to read): Hey! Invisible ink! Cool!

	10-01-2003 16:45									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Still gotta go see this, but from what you guys say I don't think I'll be disappointed, seeing as I'm a history/setting buff. I can't eally see why people would hate a movie like this so much though (except maybe because they hate leo).

Offtopic: speaking of lots of blood, Ghost ship, which I recently saw, scared the living

spoiler(highlight to read): jesus H fvcking christ!

out of me. OK, I've seen a lot of mangas and hentai, but seeing the same moves in a movie is icky. Hellraiser 3 didn't affect me so bad as this.