02-01-2003 05:07									#1
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Hi,

I'm starting to enjoy moo2 that I got from the bargain bin, but it takes a little getting used to.

A few questions...

1. How can I tell how many total parsecs a fleet or ship can move? The ship info screen only lists parsecs/turn. But no max. parsecs or anything. Some star systems are out of reach and others aren't...and I can't understand why.


2. Also, refuelling...how does it fit in?


3. When you are playing pre-warp, what are the techs needed before you can build ships? It just seems like at first you can't build any ships, then after researching some techs, you can.



I have more, but thanks for any help.

	02-01-2003 07:10									#2
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Its your maxium fuel range. Check your tech what you have, the one before the turn button if I remeber and see what you have. In the begining of the game it should be 3 parsecs. Multiply that by 1 1\2 if you have extended fuel tank, wich your scouts have.

Use the F9 key, click on a planey and put the cursor over the other planets and it will tell you how far they are from each other.

Refueling is just the max range your ships can go, as above.

In a pre warp game you will need, the I forget since I havn't played but it is the Power, Construction if I remeber correctly. The one with engines, then the one with hull and fuel cells. get back to you later if not answered from others.

davor

hope this helps

	02-01-2003 07:57									#3
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In prewarp you will need Power at 50 RP for nuc drive,
Chemistry at 50 RP for Std fuel cells, Power 80 RP for Colony, Outpost, or transports.
After that research into fuel cells controls the range that you can travel.
With these techs you can build ships below cruisers.
You need a star base to build a cruiser.
Titan tech for titans and Doom Construction for doom stars.

	02-01-2003 11:13									#4
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1. That is your refuel range (fuel cell rating). You start off at 3. This can be extended by building outposts - you don't need colonies to refuel.

	02-01-2003 17:11									#5
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The colony ship always has extra fuel tanks built-in.

	02-01-2003 20:07									#6
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To build a ship you need the first techs from power and chemistry as it was said above.

The range is determined by the best fuel cell technology you have; and if your ship has extended fuel tanks its range is increased by 50%. Colony and Outpost (the second was missed in the previous post) ships automatically have the extended fuel tanks. A star is in range if it is near enough to any of your outposts or colonies. If you are allied with someone, you can use his outposts and colonies too (and he can use yours too).

The following is a bit out of topic but ....

I found out something strange - if you dont have the colony ship technology (Power, 80RP) the game does not allow you to refit your ships. When you try to refit one the game continues to claim that you don't have enough technology to build ships and this is not true :-) In my opinion this is a bug.

	04-01-2003 21:59									#7
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I don't get it,

The game will let my fleet of ships move to a system that is 7 parsecs away, but it wont let me go to a system that is 6 parsecs away...

	04-01-2003 23:33									#8
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quote: Originally posted by catullus The colony ship always has extra fuel tanks built-in.

I think you are confusing the outpost with the colony ship. Try to send a CS to a planet that can only be reached by the scout, it will not get there, an outpost will.

	04-01-2003 23:36									#9
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quote: Originally posted by vee4473 I don't get it, The game will let my fleet of ships move to a system that is 7 parsecs away, but it wont let me go to a system that is 6 parsecs away...

If the 7 parsec is at the end of a wormhole, then it makes sense. If not, post a save. Outpost and ships with extented fuel cell get + 3 to the current fuel cell range. I am not sure, but some of the cosmic condition could have an impact.

	05-01-2003 02:44									#10
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here's another example in a new game

I can go to "zweig" with using the F9 key says is 9 parsecs away, but i can't go to "cursa" with the F9 key says is only 8 parsecs away.

Another weird thing is that although the F9 key says "cursa" is 8 parsecs away, if i try to send my fleet there, the fleet window says 6 parsecs...


now, to find the save file to post if anyone cares to have a look see

	05-01-2003 03:05									#11
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vmxa1 cares, believe me, he cares about everything moo-related more than one could imagine!

	05-01-2003 03:15									#12
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A Black hole blockening the Way?

	05-01-2003 04:54									#13
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well here ya go vmxa1 is you'd like a peek at my confusion

i just don't understand how to determine the range of ships...

especially what the following stats mean:

the x parsecs per turn stat in the "drive" window

and the:

x/x stat in the "drive" window. does it mean something?

moo2 seems like a decent game if only i could figure out the way in which travel is calculated

	05-01-2003 04:56									#14
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i dont know if the save file attached.

i can email it to ya

	05-01-2003 05:21									#15
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Ok email it at vmxa@sbcglobal.net

	05-01-2003 05:47									#16
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I am not sure what you are talking about when you say drive window. Do you mean when you design a ship and one of the sections has the drive specs?
We are talking about Moo2, right? I have been knwo to get my wires cross at times.
Anyway two numbers for drives 1- parsecs speed, the distance you can travel with that engine.
2- combat speed. This how many sectors you can move during combat.
Black holes can force you to go around, adding distance, so if they are in the path you maybe required to go farther than the f9 says. I am not sure how reliable it is anyway.
Did the fleets have all ships of the same range? IOW do any have older engines or fuel cells. Remember that if you have aquired new cells and have not been to a star base, then the ship would not have that new tech.

	05-01-2003 06:47									#17
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vee4473 , mystery solved. The deal is that if you used f9 to go from sol to those destinations, you get the numbers you mentioned. The key is it does not matter how far they are from sol in determining if you can go there, it matters how far as to the amount of time need only.
The distance from the nearest system of yours is what determines if you can go to a given place.
F9 from Fluvius to Zwreg or what ever it is called is only 5 parsec, so you can go as you have 5 parsec engines.
The nearest planet to Curisa or whatever it was was 6 parsecs.

	05-01-2003 06:57									#18
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very interesting vmx

thank you very much!

so you are saying that the distance that a fleet can travel is judged not by the system that the fleet is in but by how close the destination system is to your nearest colonized planet?

that explains it i think


am i weird for being so confused? is this mentioned in the manual somewhere that i overlooked??

	05-01-2003 07:01									#19
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Somethings you may want to consider for this game or the next. BTW I did not notice the game settings, but they do have an impact.
You did not build structures in many of the planets I looked at and worse was that Sol had the planetary super computer, but it was not queued up. You can not win with out getting at least some place close to parity with the other races and better yet a lead. How soon this occurs is a function of the difficulty settings and your race as well as the location you inherit.
It is best to create a custom race so you can get the most power availble. Game setting and style of play are factors here as well.
You need to expand in any 4x game to get power (more pop more money more research and less for them).
So if you are playing in a prewarp game with a non creative race (my normal) the tech choices you make are going to make or break you and when to make them.
If a research blitz player, you may want to get on the task of science, if colony blitzer you will put the research off a bit to get colony bases or ships going.
Maybe the most important move is to get to the research labs quickly and then build them. This is often the only RP you will have on that planet for awhile.
Getting the tech to create colony ships and outpost is a top priority.
Most will then move on to get Automated factories to boost production for further builds.
Somewhere in the Mirved thread you will find a save game with detailed logs that will at least give you a good idea of what you may want to do.

	05-01-2003 07:09									#20
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quote: Originally posted by vee4473 so you are saying that the distance that a fleet can travel is judged not by the system that the fleet is in but by how close the destination system is to your nearest colonized planet? that explains it i think am i weird for being so confused? is this mentioned in the manual somewhere that i overlooked??

Yes it is mention on page 31 where it says in the second paragraph thata fleet can only travel as far from a friendly colony or outpost as the ship with the shortest...........

	05-01-2003 07:12									#21
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So as you can see one way to extend your range is to create an outpost and drop it someplace. This acts as a colony for travel purposes. You can drop then on gas planets or whatever. I tend to stick them on a planet I want to colonize soon. Once you send a colony ship, it will turn the outpost into a marine barracks. If you are a Unification race, you may want to sell, otherwise you have a morale boost right away.

	05-01-2003 07:13									#22
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thanks for all your help vmx

i know my save game must seem like an amateurish mess, but like i said i just bought the game a week ago and have really only been focused on how the star travel system works, which i may add is a bit confusing.

I have played Civ games for a long time and thought MOO would be a great change of pace since I love space settings and science fiction.

Love that SMAC, but always thought it was lacking because it wasn't a TBS game in space with ships and such..it was just civ on another planet..but damn great game!

but i must say MOO2, although it has some comparable elements to civ, takes a bit of time to get used to.

	05-01-2003 07:20									#23
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Yes a learning curve for sure. I played all of those games forever and a day. Civ/Civ2/Civ3/PTW, SmaC/Smax is like you say not really a space game, just civ in a different planet.