16-12-1999 09:42									#1
	Cult of Planet - How can this faction be saved? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OK

The general consensus so far has been that the Cheese Dong faction is pretty much useless.

Of the seven new factions most have complained that this faction has little upside and tremendous liabilities with -1 Industry and -1 economy.

How then to power them up enough to be a viable faction.

I know this has been asked several times but thought maybe with a separate post maybe we could get some good commentary running.

My thoughts:

Give them the + 1 food in fungus bonus Diedre has
also give them + 1 energy in fungus.



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"Just puttin on the foil coach" - Hansson Bros.

	16-12-1999 21:56									#2
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Cult of the planet useless you say? I don't think so; they're the most fun to play with be because of the challenge they represent. Ok the -1 industry slows down building a large invasion force plus the -1 economy slows research. Oh and you have to wait until Centauri Genetics, E7 I think, before you get your free brood pits (plus your faction colour is pink!!!) but what about the up sides? They're what greenpeace should be, the ultimate eco-terrorists.

I have played a number of games with them (ok, in the first few I got stuffed) and have come to love them as much as Morgan. In my current game (PK, DA, CC, NP, MI, SF. Large map and transcend level) I'm kicking ass with all the early SP expect the Merchant Exchange, beating the cybrogs in tech and am wiping the oceans clean of the pirate scum. By the way I built not captured the SP and those isles of the deep are brilliant for taking sea bases with naval yards. When your main bases reach a reasonable size you can which to police state and Green and go on the rampage!! With mind worms of course! With +2 police rating those wee guys can police 6 drones! Plus they get +40% on attack because of the Green economy. Make sure to build biology labs and The Xenoempathy Dome for the life cycle bonuses. The cult can also produce a fine army to crunch its foes

All considered the Cult of the Planet is a tricky faction but used wisely is a force to be reckoned with.

Oh and when SMAC first came out Morgan was considered the most useless but is now considered to be many's favourite.

	17-12-1999 10:34									#3
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Swiss: I agree with you that in the hands of a Human player, playing against the AI, they can be quite a bit of fun, but could you imagine having to play against a human-controlled Yang or Svensgaard with them? OUCH....

I've only played out part of one game with them, and it was okay, though I felt like I was swimming in a pit of molassas during the early game with the slow energy and the slow industry, but once they get a few bases they're ok....still, I don't think their +2 Planet and late-game brood pit compares very favorably to the +1 Industry and +1 Growth of Yang (though admittedly, I've not tested them together yet).

-=Vel=-

	17-12-1999 10:35									#4
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Hey Swiss,

No problem. Your absolutely correct regarding the bennies of Cult. The downsides however (in my ever so humble opinion) seem pretty significant. Plus since SMACX has added additional means of dealing with planet factions via resonance weapons and armor, what used to be easy Green Army rushes allow other players to deal with these natives in even more effective ways than just trance and empath powers (plus the SP's for psi combat of course).

I agree any faction can be played and played well against the AI on almost any level. However, I thought of the new fations cult appeared to be the weakest in comparison to the original 7 or the new 7. Granted a mind worm rush with +4 planet offers some apeal but when countered by trance and resonance armor well..... Perhaps I am also underestimating the bennies of the police rating for colony happiness.

Oh and thanks for the reminder, I remember the first day SMAC came out and I played the Morgans, I too didn't get it until I read CEO Bernard posts over in OWO. I'll try not to be too predisposed as I find the eco factions and worm hunting not as fun as facility building.

Thanks for the reply.



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"Just puttin on the foil coach" - Hansson Bros.

	17-12-1999 05:35									#5
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Come to think of it, I wouldn't like to face a human controlled Hive one-on-one with the Cult. And I can see why people always go with the UoP and the cybrog because of their advantages, but if we wanted easy games we would all play the game at citizen level. The cult are a challenge. I as yet have not played with either the pirate or the alien factions because I feel they are too powerful and I find great satisfaction eliminating them

However, I think if you wanted to improve the Cult lowering the price to manufacture native life forms should be reduced and they should be allowed brood pits from the start (plus they should swap colours with the puny peacekeepers)

	17-12-1999 06:47									#6
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To balance the Cult:

I would give them +1 morale or an attack bonus to make them even deadlier as a
momentum faction, or even better +1 lifecycle bonus on every native lifeforms they breed.
They should get the Brood Pit from start not conditional on the tech. Also, they should get
different starting tech, Centauri Ecology is for builders. I would give them Centauri Empathy
(Green SE) at start instead.

Swisscheese4, I see your point and I played my first SMACX game as Cult. Result: met the Usurpers in 2140, eliminated them in 2160 (used captured worms only), total world conquer victory in 2260. But that's against the artificial idiot. I am now playing a PBEM as Cult, I'll see how they can perform against human Cyborgs, Pirates, Gaians and Believers.

However, they are definitely unbalanced, much weaker than any other of the 14 factions in my opinion.

zsozso

	17-12-1999 14:27									#7
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SNAC suggests changing 10%psi/planet to 20%psi/planet. This would turn the +40% with green to +80% and +120% with green/cybernetic.

	21-11-2000 06:54									#8
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^

	21-11-2000 08:37									#9
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I'm a relative newcomer to SMACX (and this board) so don't take my opinion as authoritative but the one thing I notice about Cha Dawn is he tends to tick off everyone and get stomped early when the AI is in control.

Almost every time I infiltrate him (or get infiltration by the Empath Guild SP or election to governor), and check out his faction profile, he's got Vendetta against nearly everyone. And the alien factions seem to take special pleasure in womping on him.

Anyway, a couple thoughts on "saving" him:

-In general, sneakiness would be the catchword.

-In MP, he needs alliances. Buddy up with a stronger faction and get a pact going. Ruthlessly betraying said benefactor is optional.

-I would think he would need to do a lot of horse-trading, spying, and conquering to get tech. Industry is low, so building things quick doesn't work well. SPs can always be captured. Probes can steal tech.

	21-11-2000 09:10									#10
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Just played the first 100 years as Cha at transcend level, and have the tech lead, the military lead and am ahead in wealth.

Secret undoubtedly for Cha is pod popping and mindworm/spore hunting.

Pod popping gives early techs, and if you pop a worm, so what - you are hunting with a +2 planet rating (+4 if you have gone green) so it's a never ending recruiting drive or money-making exercise. So much so that I could afford to rush build the SPs I wanted (ME for my science city, VW, PTS and CDF)

So far, tho, I have only met Morgan, and traded three techs for 3 of his.

5 bases, about to build my sixth and commence a pop-boom (with the PTS)

5 scouts, 2 rovers, 1 strance synthmetal being prototyped, five spores and 7 mindworms form my army. All bases have tanks, commons, nodes and biolabs.

Maybe in an alternate universe, with a rampaging miriam, things might have been different........

G.

	23-11-2000 01:47									#11
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Jebus! That was the first ever post I did in these forums!

I know the challange Googlie was talking about, it was Velociryx Ultimite Builder Challange. It was Rock Hard. But it goes to show that a good player can do even with a poor faction. As I said before the cult are quite a challange and then some.

Hey Googlie is Velociryx still around? He was the MAN!!!

	23-11-2000 08:38									#12
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He has "officially" retired from smac'ing, he says. We tried to lure him back into writing for the Spartan Chronicles, but to no avail.

You can visit his own site where he hangs out, and occasionally posts to his own forum there on SMAC strategy issues - it's:

http://clik.to/renaissance

although he has been there only intermittently these last few weeks

Googlie

	24-11-2000 15:28									#13
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Cheers Googlie, that is a pity about Velociryx.

The Ultimate Builder Challenge was created by zsozso and can be found in the AC-Strategy ARCHIVE. or at http://apolyton.net/forums/Archives...-31-000174.html I think