02-01-2003 11:54									#1
	Would you take 4 silk for an OCC game? Put an end to popups!

I do - later, I transform it to wine. I normally have enough engineers to do that (I usually bribe 1 or 2 settlers/engineers from my neighbours. And I usually build Leonardo's in an OCC game, if possible). And, if one or two silk specials are on a river ....
My strategy in OCC is to go for republic as soon as possible (even before trade), then build an aqueduct (my people want to celebrate!). I put workers on every silk special.
I always transform buffaloes to coal, too (and fruits - to silk/wine, too).
I once had a game where I produced nearly 1600 (anyone more?) beakers a turn (100 % science) - with 4 wine hills and some river fields.

	02-01-2003 13:32									#2
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Hello Ramses II,

It's too late right now to think your proposal through, but it does, at first glance, seem to be a lot of transformation.

Bison to Coal

You don't say why. Do you then mine the coal?? That would result in two additional shields, it's true, but at a staggering cost in time (25 turns, IIRC). You can gain two shields by mining a grass tile in only 5 turns. And with coal there are no arrows; whereas you can road the bison in one turn with your engineer.

It just seems like a huge opportunity cost. What could the engineer have done otherwise, during that time is the consideration.

Perhaps there is more to your plan that I am missing.

	02-01-2003 13:59									#3
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@Bloody Monk
As I mentionend, I have some engineers at work (1 original NONE, 2-3 that are supported from the city, 1-2 bribed = 4-6 engineers). And you can speed up the transformation (and mining) (see the GL, too): the first engineer begins in turn 1, the 2nd in turn 2, the 3rd in turn3 ...2 engineers left for clearing pollution.
the city engineers will be disbanded later.
As you know, you need a production of at least 80 shields for OCC - a mined coal hill helps a lot.
Coal has got no arrows, that's right - except the coal mine is on a river ....
I also transform wheat to wine.

	03-01-2003 01:10									#4
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Yep. I also love to look upon those grape covered hills.

One of the exceptional things about this game is the many successful pathways one can follow to success.

Maybe you needed the grass tile I suggested you could reforest for the food. That you used multiple engineers only reduced the number of game turns, not the 'man hours' required. The opportunity cost is the roads, rails, whatever, that could have been done.

Your plan does have the virtue that you have something to do those turns besides click 'enter'.

It's also true that your plan worked and you had fun doing it; and I am not in any way trying to detract from that. Just making a comment from the Occam's Razor viewpoint.

Let's go make more grapes

	03-01-2003 02:28									#5
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1600 beakers is excellent. Did your city include a road and rail connection to a nearby AI city?

The best I've seen is around 1500 on a random map, but on an edited map the highest I've seen is 1864.

I like 4 silk, but prefer to see a few of them start off as hidden grassland, or better yet, as wheat. Irrigating these before mining can yield extra citizens (and future scientists) during the celebration, after which the switch can be made to silk, (or preferably wine, if time allows).

	03-01-2003 11:39									#6
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I also transform gems to silk/wine. And an iron mountain, too, if I can afford it.