27-11-2000 18:03									#1
	submissive factions Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

My question: Under what circumstances can a faction, which is in pact with me because of it's submission, leave this pact.
I ask because I thougt this was only possible if I would use a planet buster.
But in one game this happend to me: I was playing the pirates and got Cha Dawn to capitulate to me and make a submissive pact. Then (my shame) I overlooked that Cha Dawn made a normale pact with Deirdre. Some turns later I randomly attackt one of Deirdres bases in which one of Cha Dawns units was hidden, and Cha Dawn declared Vendetta to me.
I know, it was my mistake not to force Cha to make Vendetta against Deirdre and my other enemies. But nethertheless, I was surprised that Cha Dawn could cancel the pact without me using a planet buster.
Do You know other situations in which this can happen?

	27-11-2000 19:25									#2
	Support Apolyton

. If you atacked the base in which Cha had a guest unit either with artillery or it had the highest defense value and was used as defender, then you attacked that unit, creating vendetta, and cha's message was in response to that attack. The same can happen the other way. Cha might bombard or attack a third party base in which you have a unit.
. In long "make the other factions into pets and transcend in 2499" games I find my pets inadvertanly attacking several times.

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Gauis Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
Pontificator Pendanticus
older richer & wiser than you

	28-11-2000 00:02									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Has anyone else ever seen anything like this? Playing the Gaians, I had submission pacts from Yang and Miriam, and a truce with Lal; all others were eliminated. I called a Council meeting to get a diplomatic win; Yang and Miriam voted for me like good little pact siblings, and I was duly voted Supreme Leader. But Yang and Miriam refused to accept the result and declared Vendetta, forcing me to spend another 10 turns or so destroying them for a Conquest victory.

	28-11-2000 03:11									#4
	Got spare money?

Rex, this seems to happen more often if you reputation has been damaged. Then the AI feels less compelled to honour its agreements with you.

Every now and then your submissive pactmate may choose to probe you for tech. This is another way that pacts can be broken.

I have had situations where I have a submissive pactmate and a regular pactmate who were at war with each other. If the submissive pactmate received payment for the other faction's destruction he may not agree to making peace.

	28-11-2000 06:34									#5
	Got spare money?

My rep was "Scrupulous". Also, don't forget that they actually voted for me as Supreme Leader, then refused to accept the result. It's as if Richard Cheney and Jeb Bush were demanding a recount in Palm Beach County!

(Note: had to edit Cheney's first name because the filtering rejected the version most commonly used. . .)


[This message has been edited by Rex Little (edited November 27, 2000).]