03-01-2003 16:27									#1
	Dow Chemical sues Bhopal survivors Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Corporate ethics

http://www.greenpeace.org/internati...s?news_id=95504

quote: Home > Greenpeace International > News > details How low can Dow go? Dow sues penniless Bhopal survivors Mon 23 December 2002 In a stunning example of corporate insensibility, Dow Chemical, the worlds largest chemical company, and new owners of Union Carbide is to sue survivors of the 1984 Union Carbide gas disaster in Bhopal, India. While the site of the disaster lies covered in toxic waste and survivors struggle with continuing ill health and deadly pollution from the site, Dow has decided to add to their woes with a Indian lawsuit. Yes that's right - the very people Dow should be helping are now facing a lawsuit from one of the world most powerful corporations. Why are they acting in such an amazingly perverse manner? On December 2nd a peaceful march of 200 women survivors from Bhopal delivered toxic waste from the abandoned Carbide factory back to Dow's Indian headquarters in Bombay with the demand that Dow take responsibility for the disaster and clean up the site. Dow obviously has other ideas because they are suing survivors for about US$10,000 for "loss of work". That's US$10,000 compensation demanded for a two hour peaceful protest where only one Dow employee briefly ventured out of the Mumbai corporate business park to meet the women protestors. Satyu, a Bhopal activist and one of the protestors charged by Dow highlighted how ridiculous this "loss of work" claim is: "Thousands of us lost their lives, many more have not been able to do our jobs for the last 18 years and 150,000 people in Bhopal are still suffering ill health because of the Union Carbide gas tragedy in 1984. Even today people die and children are born with gas related diseases. It is outrageous that Dow is charging us US$10,000 and tries to shut us down from seeking justice from them". The damages demanded by Dow will amount to about 10 years income for the survivors charged but is less than one days sales revenue for Dow. Also Dow is seeking to silence protest by demanding that survivors be banned from holding protests within 100m of Dow offices in India. Dow has just appointed a new CEO, William Stravopoulos, who engineered the Dow merger with Union Carbide in 2001. If this lawsuit is how he intends to deal with the ongoing Bhopal disaster then it will be a huge public relations own goal. Dow proudly proclaims it slogan as "living improved daily". How does that fit with the suing of poor protestors who have a real grievance with the company?

good way to open 2003.

	03-01-2003 16:29									#2
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I think that's all that needs to be said.

	03-01-2003 16:29									#3
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Dow Chemical.

The company who made silicon breasts that exploded inside the bodies of women when they were flying in airplanes

	03-01-2003 16:35									#4
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Dow Chemical. The company who made silicon breasts that exploded inside the bodies of women when they were flying in airplanes

terrorists

	03-01-2003 16:35									#5
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BTW the last name is wrong. It's StavRopoulos, not StRavopoulos.

It makes an important difference.

In the frist case it means "son of the cross"

in the second case it means "son of the one with a limited vision/crosseyed"

Appropriate mispelling in this instance though

Oh and somebody needs to call his uncle. He knows who he is

	03-01-2003 16:37									#6
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quote: Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave terrorists

By accident

	03-01-2003 16:42									#7
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Hooray for capitalism.

	03-01-2003 16:43									#8
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Down Chemicals

	03-01-2003 16:50									#9
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The REALLY sad thing about this whole mess would be if some attourney actually takes this case...or if some judge actually hears it in his/her court...

It stories like this that make me wish peaceful protests would turn violent and destructive...

	03-01-2003 16:59									#10
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Yeah, spray them toxic chemicals around all Dow plants and offices. That would be fine retaliation.

	03-01-2003 17:05									#11
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You know, this kind of crap makes me sick. If companies like Dow would do the right thing in the first place they would find it so much cheaper and beneficial in the long run.

I won't go into the details but Tylenol did this very well in the 1980s.

	03-01-2003 17:15									#12
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At face value it looks appalling, but have you got a less biased source.

	03-01-2003 17:24									#13
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While dow chemical seems to be total morons it's a fair question to ask what the corporation has paided during the years since the accident. As the site isn't cleaned it hints that they haven't payed enough. If laws actually worked as they should Dow should be really careful to start talking about lawsuits as they should get about a millions times more lawsuit demans back.

But as most sane and informed people knows, the laws seldom works in a unbiased and sane way even in Western Europe and the US there's not chance in hell that the real victims will get what they deserve in India.

	03-01-2003 17:57									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin At face value it looks appalling, but have you got a less biased source.

Well I doubt they would be making this up, and if you check their website there is a report from the actual protest too.

This seems to be to trivial for the major news media.

If you imply that the protest might have been violent - Indian women in a violent protest - now that would be reported all over the world.

Well am I implying that violent protests give you coverage or what.

	03-01-2003 18:10									#15
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quote: Dow is a leading science and technology company that provides innovative chemical, plastic and agricultural products and services to many essential consumer markets. With annual sales of $28 billion, Dow serves customers in more than 170 countries and a wide range of markets that are vital to human progress, including food, transportation, health and medicine, personal and home care, and building and construction, among others. Committed to the principles of Sustainable Development, Dow and its approximately 50,000 employees seek to balance economic, environmental and social responsibilities. Dow people around the world develop solutions for society based on the company's inherent strength in science and technology - to constantly improve the essentials of life. This distinctive contribution we make to society helps customers succeed, stockholders prosper, employees achieve and communities thrive. As the company's philanthropic arm, The Dow Chemical Company Foundation contributes more than $18 million annually to charitable and educational institutions in Dow communities on behalf of Dow and its employees around the world.

Now be fair. This is from www.dow.com. As you can see, Dow stands for "Social Responsibility"

	03-01-2003 18:13									#16
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The source is obviously biased, but that doesn't have to mean it's wrong.

	03-01-2003 18:15									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin The source is obviously biased, but that doesn't have to mean it's wrong.

It might be *just* a little "colored" .

	03-01-2003 20:38									#18
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Dow handled the Bhopal incident horribly, and obviously continues to do so.

Part of the problem, IIRC, is that the Indian government accepted a settlement with Dow that was ridiculously small, on behalf of those hurt/killed. The government bargained away their claims for peanuts, and has done a bad job of distributing what little cash it got out of Dow.

I think Dow's conduct was poor, but so was that of the Indian government.

-Arrian

	03-01-2003 21:11									#19
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Multinational manufacturers would **** their pants if anything like US strict liability doctrine was adopted globally for toxics cases.

	03-01-2003 21:26									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Dow handled the Bhopal incident horribly, and obviously continues to do so. Part of the problem, IIRC, is that the Indian government accepted a settlement with Dow that was ridiculously small, on behalf of those hurt/killed. The government bargained away their claims for peanuts, and has done a bad job of distributing what little cash it got out of Dow. I think Dow's conduct was poor, but so was that of the Indian government. -Arrian

Dow didn't have anything to do with the Bhopal incident. At the time it occurred (1984), Union Carbide was an independent corporation. Dow didn't attempt a takeover until 2000. However, it is interesting to note that Dow shareholders filed a suit against the company claiming that Union Carbide still had potential problems relating to the Bhopal incident. Check out http://www.bhopal.net/asianage.html

	03-01-2003 21:38									#21
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quote: Originally posted by TheBirdMan Well I doubt they would be making this up, and if you check their website there is a report from the actual protest too. This seems to be to trivial for the major news media. If you imply that the protest might have been violent - Indian women in a violent protest - now that would be reported all over the world.

I find the devil is in the detail, and/or the lack thereof. There may be a reason for this action other than that given by Greenpeace.

	03-01-2003 21:40									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin The source is obviously biased, but that doesn't have to mean it's wrong.

You can be factually correct and be nowhere near wrong whilst still giving misrepresentation.

	03-01-2003 21:49									#23
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Yes that's what I said, more or less. So?

	03-01-2003 21:55									#24
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I see a difference in what I said and in what you said.

Your statement gave me the impression that you think it doesn't matter that its biased. If thats not your intent, I misinterpreted it.

	03-01-2003 22:26									#25
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MtG,

The way successor liability works, it doesn't really matter that it was Union Carbide back then (assuming Dow acquired assets + liabilities, which is standard). It's Dow's problem now - except (unless my recollection of the settlement is incorrect), Dow doesn't really have any legal liability anymore.

-Arrian (who should have remembered that it was Union Carbide, though)

	03-01-2003 22:48									#26
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Multinational manufacturers would **** their pants if anything like US strict liability doctrine was adopted globally for toxics cases.

There were a couple of issues which made this case pretty complicated.

First, Union Carbide claimed that their Indian subsidiary was negligent. There was pretty good evidence to back this (eg, safety devices had been disabled, the methyl isocyanate tank was filled beyond its safe design capacity), and Union Carbide won this point in court. The Indian subsidiary would have been found guilty under either a negligence or a strict liability standard. Only problem was that the Indian subsidiary's assets were insufficient to cover the claims.

Second, many of the people who were injured and later died left the vicinity of the plant right after the incident. This, combined with the latency of some of the diseases, has made it very difficult to track the number of people ultimately killed as a result of the incident, and helps explain some of the low payout to date.

I suspect that the suit against the protestors is not serious, but is part of the ongoing legal manouvering. All that said, it was pretty stupid to sue them.

edit: clarification of negligence and strict liability

	03-01-2003 22:55									#27
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Well it sounds like the most ridiculous move, certainly adding insult to injury for the survivors and families involved in the Bhopal disaster. There may be something else to the story, but nothing I can think of can justify a lawsuit against protestors protesting about the thing they did wrong. It sounds very, very sick...

	03-01-2003 23:05									#28
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DS: No that was not my intention. As a reply to earlier post that rightfully said that it was biased I wanted to point out that even if a text is it doesn't per definition mean that the text is useless. Often one has to get by with more or less biased sources. It's important to aknowledge this and get what one can from it non the less.

	03-01-2003 23:20									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker You know, this kind of crap makes me sick. If companies like Dow would do the right thing in the first place they would find it so much cheaper and beneficial in the long run. I won't go into the details but Tylenol did this very well in the 1980s.

Probably because consumers directly buy Tylenol products and put them in their mouth. People wouldn't do that if they thought they were lethal.

Also, all the evidence here points to a serial killer who hasn't (I think) been caught, and not any wrong doing on the part of Johnson and Johnson (Tylenol parent co.). The saving of the Tylenol brand name is considered on of the great P.R. campaigns in history.

	03-01-2003 23:22									#30
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quote: Dow Chemical sues Bhopal survivors

*sigh*
How low can you go.....