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DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 04:39
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The creeping fog of disillusionment in the United States continues to roll... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...ing_travelers_2

U.S. Proposes Visitor Tracking System
Fri Jan 3, 2:37 PM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!


By CURT ANDERSON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Millions of travelers arriving and departing the United States will have to submit detailed personal information this year under rules proposed by the federal government Friday as part of the war on terrorism.



The rules proposed by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, once they are finalized, seek more information from travelers than under current law and for the first time extend the requirements to U.S. citizens and others previously exempted.


All airlines, cargo flights, cruise ships and other vessels carrying crew or passengers will be affected, with the exception of ferry boats. The information will be sent electronically to the government before a traveler arrives in the United States or departs from it, giving officials a complete manifest of exactly who is on board.


"It's another way to enhance security for travelers," said INS spokeswoman Kimberly Weismann.


The changes were mandated by broad border security legislation that passed Congress overwhelmingly and was signed into law May 14 by President Bush (news - web sites). The law also tightened rules regarding issuance of visas to visitors and students coming to the United States and adding more Border Patrol officers, among other things.


For years, international travelers have been required to fill out forms detailing their arrival and departure from countries around the world. The U.S. government, however, has not previously required its own citizens to submit such forms. Canadians, permanent resident aliens and certain other people were also exempted.


The proposed INS rule would require all passengers arriving or departing, as well as crew members, to provide this information: name; date of birth; citizenship; sex; passport number and country of issuance; country of residence; U.S. visa number and other details of its issuance; address while in the United States; and, where it applies, alien registration number.


The law also gives Attorney General John Ashcroft (news - web sites) leeway in proposing further requirements. In the INS rule, Ashcroft has added a proposed "passenger name record" for airlines that will enable the government to better match a departure record with one for an arrival.


Once the information is collected, it will be transmitted to the U.S. government and matched against "the appropriate security databases" prior to the travelers' arrival. Anyone who raises a red flag regarding terrorism or other law enforcement concern could be met by officials when the ship or plane arrives in this country.


That computer system is still being developed, meaning the rules will probably take full effect later this year. The INS estimates they will affect 108 large commercial air carriers and ship lines, as well as more than 14,400 smaller carriers of both kinds. Initial costs to the private sector in complying with the rules are pegged at $166 million.


____


On the Net:


http://www.ins.usdoj.gov




I'm not certain what to feel about this developement. On the surface it seems like a logical thing to require, but underneath I'm a little unsettled by it. I seriously doubt they'll ever make any proposals that citizens will next need to submit Travel Papers whenever travelling between states, but still this latest proposal gives reason for pause...

Demerzel is offline Demerzel
Warlord

Jul 2002
time: 05:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 05:28
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Got spare money?

hurrah all the producers of films with America as a police state in the future will be well chuffed to see their predictions coming true.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 07:39
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quote:
The proposed INS rule would require all passengers arriving or departing, as well as crew members, to provide this information: name; date of birth; citizenship; sex; passport number and country of issuance; country of residence; U.S. visa number and other details of its issuance; address while in the United States; and, where it applies, alien registration number.


That's it? Big ****ing deal...

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 07:42 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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This is a good rule and just seems like common sense, and my question is:

WHY WASN'T THIS BEING DONE ALL ALONG?

Demerzel is offline Demerzel
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Jul 2002
time: 05:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 07:48
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the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

this decision may seem small but combined with other such security steps it could be quite intrusive. it's not as if a "police state" would appear in one step, they would gradually have the state getting more repressive and more liberties being removed in the name of security.

it's called salami tactics, each time you do a little more than before. each time, nothing you do can be objected to as it's such a small thing but put together and it's quite the sacrifice.

i'm not saying this is happening to the US but any removal of civil liberties is a bad thing. the question is how much freedom is America willing to sacrifice in the name of protection from terrorism?

note, in this case they're tightening up entrance procedures which in itself is a good thing. However, when combined with other things that have been introduced post 11/9 it does seem a little repressive. Maybe I'm wrong though. Time will tell.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 07:51
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How exactly does this new policy violate anyone's civil rights? It's a common sense policy, for god's sake. Wake the **** up...

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 07:53 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Demerzel: How much for your tinfoil hat?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 09:09
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I'm sure implanted ID chips will be next

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
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There's nothing inherently evil about an ID chip.

And ID chip with homing devices is unacceptable, though.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 09:14 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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There are already some parents who have embedded the ID chip into their kids.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 09:18
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OMFG, are you serious Striker? I was being facetious...

yikes...

Asher: yeah that's what I meant... homing trackers and stuff... don't worry though, I've got numerous foil hats just in case

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 09:19 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Seriously, it's been done. And I'm pretty sure that they have tracking devices in them.

It's like that lojack chip you get for your car to protect it in case it gets stolen!

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 09:19
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Anybody here ever heard of movement analysis?

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
King
United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 09:19 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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I take it that the United States of America is the first Western government to implement (or try to) such a security system, considering how outraged some folks are by it? Demerzel?

Gatekeeper

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 09:21
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If my folks did that to me, I'd rip that sh!t out!...
hold on let me check myself... hopefully there isn't one in my n00ts!

Kingof the Apes is offline Kingof the Apes
Prince
Call me KOTA
Feb 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 09:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
There are already some parents who have embedded the ID chip into their kids.


"What were you doing there last night, young man?"
"I was asking directions! Honest!"

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 12:24
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Re: The creeping fog of disillusionment in the United States continues to roll... Increase the size of your Attachments

The title suggests you have been reading cheap novels. Which one did you tap for the title?

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 13:01
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Or maybe the ID chip could be set to go off and disable the alien if he or she overstays their visa, or goes somewhere other than where they say they are going - something like the death chip that almost timed out to kill Snake Pliskin in "Escape from New York."

We seem to be moving in the right direction.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 14:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber
The title suggests you have been reading cheap novels. Which one did you tap for the title?


I actually wrestled with what to call it/what would be appropriate. This title seemed to suffice, though I wasn't completely satisfied with it. Like I said, I'm not sure what to feel about the latest proposal, hence my uncertainty on what to name the thread.

In jest: "World Domination for Dummies, by George W. Bush Jr." Chapter 5: Prepping The Sheep In Your Homeland.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
time: 21:24
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basically the republicans want more people to travel by car. Which is what will happen.

More death on the highways

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:24
  Old Post 04-01-2003 14:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
basically the republicans want more people to travel by car. Which is what will happen.

More death on the highways


Damn Germans and Chinese with their Maglev trains! How dare they defy any part of our imperialist plans for total world conquest! Nuke the insolent swine!!!


















chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:24
  Old Post 05-01-2003 01:06 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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So wait? I have to give the Federal government all kinds of information if I want to leave the country?

This enhances my security how?

optimus2861 is offline optimus2861
Chieftain
Halifax, NS
Nov 2000
time: 01:24
  Old Post 05-01-2003 02:25
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Agree with Che, making people leaving the country submit that information sounds a bit, well, dumb.

But for US citizens entering the US? Don't they have to fill out customs forms or something, as it stands now? After all, when I reenter Canada after an international flight, I have to fill out a form with pretty well all the information that was described, I have to talk to a customs officer, etc. This article suggests that this isn't the case ... ?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
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  Old Post 05-01-2003 02:51
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I want to give the government misinformation... I dunno why, I mean, if they atre watching me, they're stupid because i'm not a terrorist.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 05-01-2003 04:24 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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You always had to give that information upon entering the US. It's an annoying hassle. If goods and capital can come into and out of the US from Mexican and Canada and the US unrestricted, I should be able to do the same.

What we need is a joint customs union.

CapTVK is offline CapTVK
King
Voorburg, the Netherlands, Europe
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
  Old Post 05-01-2003 04:39 Visit CapTVK's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
basically the republicans want more people to travel by car. Which is what will happen.

More death on the highways


Actually cars can be tracked as well thanks to a unique ID tag in the tires. The emphasis here is placed on tracking tires throughout the production cycle. But these RFID tire tracking tags can just as well be used by insurance companies (car theft), government agencies or....toll booths.

Note: this system is already in place


So, if I stated that if i installed scanning booths that would regardless scan every car that travels over a highway or motorway. Would that worry you?


http://home.intermec.com/eprise/mai...out&pressID=355


quote:


Intermec to Support First RFID Standard for Tire Tracking and Traceability

* AIAG’s B-11 is one of the world’s first global RFID standard for item-level tracking and traceability
* Intermec is first supplier to offer commercially available tags and readers that comply with AIAG’s B-11

EVERETT, Wash., February 21, 2002 – Intermec Technologies Corp. acknowledges the Automotive Industry Action Group’s (AIAG) industry leadership for generating one of the world’s first item-level RFID (radio frequency identification) tracking and traceability standards, known as B-11.

Based on the group’s actions, Intermec announces the commercial availability of RFID tags and readers that immediately support the new standard.

The B-11 standard will guide further introduction of RFID technology into the auto industry. Among the first planned applications will be inclusion of an RFID tag on new-car tires, allowing car and tire manufacturers and tire retailers to track tires throughout production, assembly and distribution.

This item-level tracking capability can enable more targeted recalls and increased safety for consumers. The B-11 standard also provides a useful technology tool to help automakers and retailers streamline their respective supply chains.

RFID technology allows companies to track items without the line of sight requirements of other forms of automatic data collection such as barcode systems. RFID systems typically use a computer chip and a tiny antenna, packaged together and known as a tag, together with readers known as interrogators, to provide information at many times the speed of traditional bar code technology.

As currently mandated by the Department of Transportation, a portion of the on-tire information identifies the time of manufacture within a one-week window. RFID tire tags built to the B-11 specification dramatically improves that resolution, making it possible to pinpoint time of manufacture down to the minute. Because the standard provides each tire tag with a unique ID number, each tire can be treated as a separate entity. As a result, information gathered from tire assembly through shipping and receiving can be inherently more accurate.

Initially, RFID tire tags may be affixed to the outside of the tire and eventually embedded in the tire itself.

During the vehicle assembly process, automakers will be able to add the vehicle’s identification number (VIN) to the tag’s memory. The information then can be downloaded into a database, matching every tire to the vehicle on which it is installed, including the spare – in effect creating a vehicle "fingerprint." The history of the vehicle then can be tracked, including the dealer and the eventual owner, so that if a recall occurs, the tires in question can be targeted to an individual vehicle.

"The new RFID tire tag standard, to which Intermec’s Intellitag conforms, has the potential to transform the manufacturing and distribution processes for tires," said Intermec Vice President Jim Evans. "This technology gives the manufacturer a dynamic work-in-progress viewpoint, tracking each and every minute of a tire’s build, right through to, and including, shipping."

"These tags could improve consumer safety by providing information quickly and accurately in the event a tire recall should ever become necessary." said Bill Hoffman, manager, Automotive Supply Chain, Intermec, and chairman of AIAG’s RFID Tire and Wheel Identification workgroup.

With its passive read/write design and long-range capabilities (up to eight feet read range), Intermec’s RFID tire tag can be used throughout the tire supply chain, benefiting distributors and retailers as well as tire and auto manufacturers, Evans said.

The B-11 protocol is the product of less than 12 months’ work by AIAG’s AIDC/RFID Work Group and supports the Tread Act, which is the federal government’s mandate that the industry develop a mechanism to track tire recalls. The group currently is working on adding RFID standards for wheels to the B-11 and is expected to have that completed within the next several months

Lorizael is offline Lorizael

Prince
The Cult Wins
Sep 2001
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  Old Post 05-01-2003 05:00
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My only real problem with this is having to give your place of residence while in the United States. I don't see why the government really needs to know that all. The rest of the information seems alright to me.

Still, I worry, hopefully needlessly, that Americans will become so used to the idea that security is more important than the nature of this nation that when they have lost their freedom, they don't even notice it.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:24
  Old Post 05-01-2003 06:28
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quote:
My only real problem with this is having to give your place of residence while in the United States. I don't see why the government really needs to know that all.


If the Feds notice that you made stops off in Saudi Arabia and the Sudan on your last overseas trip, they might want to ask you a few questions. How are they supposed to find you if they don't have an address?

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:24
  Old Post 05-01-2003 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
So wait? I have to give the Federal government all kinds of information if I want to leave the country?

This enhances my security how?


So when you try to come back in, they know who to stop and deny entry

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