08-01-2003 03:04									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp If you don't consider the widespread use of nerve gas on an unarmed civilian population as evil then I really don't give much concern for your moral standards because you're clearly mad.

I haven't seen any evidence of that, and I don't consider anything 'evil'. Quite simply, I do not think we can judge what is evil or not, since it depends on the individuals moral code, thus I do not consider it a concept. I do not agree with Saddam, I do not like what he does, but I will never brand someone evil. All they are is a combination of their parent's genes and their experiences, most in early life. I don't see how you can hold someone accountable for that. You can hold him accountable for his actions, and can brand an action an 'evil' action at a pinch, but to brand a person evil. He can control his actions, he cannot control his personality.

	08-01-2003 03:07									#152
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I'm surprised the United States never used the School of America to train terrorists to crash planes into tall buildings, before the Al-Quieda thought of doing it.

	08-01-2003 03:10									#153
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I'm surprised you haven't figured out that no one finds that topic very interesting. What is there to say about it besides it's a crappy thing to have around and that we should shut it down? Not much. Boring discussion.

-Arrian

	08-01-2003 03:15									#154
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So no one is upset that the United States sponsors terrorism?

No one is upset that we're bullshitting ourselves with the war against terrorism, while United States sponsors terrorism?

Then those people not interested, probably don't value human life very much, not to mention having consistent values within our own government.

	08-01-2003 03:25									#155
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Read my prior post.

-Arrian

	08-01-2003 03:50									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I haven't seen any evidence of that, and I don't consider anything 'evil'. Quite simply, I do not think we can judge what is evil or not, since it depends on the individuals moral code, thus I do not consider it a concept. I do not agree with Saddam, I do not like what he does, but I will never brand someone evil. All they are is a combination of their parent's genes and their experiences, most in early life. I don't see how you can hold someone accountable for that. You can hold him accountable for his actions, and can brand an action an 'evil' action at a pinch, but to brand a person evil. He can control his actions, he cannot control his personality.

"We are what we do repeatedly"- Aristotle.

He's evil.

	08-01-2003 03:56									#157
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Ok. I can understand where Aristotle is coming from, however I do not agree. I think we know many thing snow that Aristotle did not have access to then, and such even he may be of different opinion now. Anyway, feel free to believe that, but I shall never condemn anyone as being evil.

Last edited by Drogue on 08-01-2003 at 04:05

	08-01-2003 03:57									#158
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Have you already posted how you participate in any organization to better things, Mr Fun ?
Did I miss that, I guess ?
Have you said what you would do as alternatives ?
You probably did, and I missed that also.
How about addressing the woefully late date that this action is taking place?
Dang. I got to get different glasses, I guess.

	08-01-2003 04:07									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Yes, I believe they should have stopped there. Indeed they tried. Haig I think to was (unless I've got the wrong) wanted us to be lenient on Germany, to keep it as a trading ally, and was against complete invasion and occupation. Sadly, it was not his decision though. However I don't think it was a massive failing that they did, like I don't think it was a massive failing that the UN did not stop at defending Kuwaitm, although I do feel it should not have been done. A difference between Germany and Iraq is that Germany was a threat to all fighting against her, whereas Iraq posed no threat to the USA or UK. I do understand why we went to Iraq, but I feel the UNs mandate only goes so far as defense. If Iraq had invaded the US, I would feel better about invading Iraq. Germany tried to make peace with England? Not as far as I've read, if you have a source I would be interested. Moreover, we had alliances that we would enforce the neutrality of Belgium. I would have been in favour of stopping at Germany's borders, but even those were disputed at the time. WW1 I'm afraid I know little about so cannot really comment.

Does the name Rudolph Hess mean anything to you?

	08-01-2003 06:06									#160
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Have you already posted how you participate in any organization to better things, Mr Fun ? Did I miss that, I guess ? Have you said what you would do as alternatives ? You probably did, and I missed that also. How about addressing the woefully late date that this action is taking place? Dang. I got to get different glasses, I guess.

I have read about the protests that were carried out in the past by other groups against the School of America.

If you can point me to websites of these protest groups, I will be interested in learning more about what I can do to protest the United State's sponsorship of terrorism.

	08-01-2003 06:15									#161
	Re: What's the Difference? Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by David Floyd In the latest thread about Iraq, I made the comment that if the US attacks Iraq, I hope that the US loses, or at least takes a massive military beating. Obviously, I got jumped on because of that comment. I even got called a traitor (oh no, not THAT ). But my question is, why is it OK for US soldiers to kill Iraqis, but not OK for Iraqis to kill US soldiers? Why is it OK to wish that the US conducts a bloodless (for the US) campaign, destroying the Iraqi military (and incidentally killing thousands), but not OK to wish that the US gets frustrated in its aggression, and takes several thousand (several tens of thousands, even) of casualties? I just don't see the difference. Maybe someone can help me out here.

I will never respond to your posts again, or read threads you start.......................I cannot imagine what could possibly fuel such stupidity.

	08-01-2003 08:21									#162
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quote: I will never respond to your posts again, or read threads you start.......................I cannot imagine what could possibly fuel such stupidity.

Yet another person who can't make an argument, and as such retires in shame

	08-01-2003 10:29									#163
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And you still have yet to respond.

	08-01-2003 10:32									#164
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Respond to what? No one has actually addressed my initial question, that I have seen. The majority of the posts directed against me are simple attempts to justify a war on Iraq, which is not what I'm asking.

	08-01-2003 10:54									#165
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you are a dork!

BRING IT

	08-01-2003 10:56									#166
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when we stop looking at people of the world as nationalities, your question will resolve itself. The death of anyone will be considered a horrible tragedy.

I'm afraid that's a long ways off

	08-01-2003 10:58									#167
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quote: you are a dork! BRING IT

Good argument

orange,

quote: when we stop looking at people of the world as nationalities, your question will resolve itself. The death of anyone will be considered a horrible tragedy.

I agree.

	08-01-2003 11:02									#168
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you like that you freak???

	08-01-2003 11:03									#169
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and it's not an argument it's fact!

	08-01-2003 11:13									#170
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You've either been drinking, or you're in a pissy mood.

But if you do, in fact, disagree with me, as I assume you do, you're not doing much to help your side's position - quite the opposite, in fact.

	08-01-2003 11:14									#171
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Blah blah blah..no it's not that, i just know by other sources that you are full of Shitzer most of the time!



Ooooppps did i say that OUT LOUD?

	08-01-2003 11:19									#172
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YOu know I always was fond of you until I found out that you were a two faced weasel!

*transmission out*

	08-01-2003 11:20									#173
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider Albert: Loyalty should come first and foremost to humanity in general rather than just a certain group of people. I believe that all people are equally part of God's creation, but whether you agree with me or not on that point, you will likely agree with me that nation-states, as we know them, are no more than articificial constructions of transcendent institutions of power.

Unfortunately it doesn't work this way (at least not yet). The good of humanity is achieved through a healthy balance of nation-states. It's just human nature. Actually, it's the same reason Communism doesn't work.

	08-01-2003 11:29									#174
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Oh, and 4)In what way is the US government my family? I feel no absolute personal loyalty or compassion towards the US government, whereas I do to my family.

It's not members of the government who risk being killed, it's your compatriots, mostly of poor discent.

	08-01-2003 12:08									#175
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gah... so many points to argue... dunno where to start... Ill just say, for the most part, I agree with what Ned has said and what UberKrux has said.

Kman

	08-01-2003 12:13									#176
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"Unfortunately it doesn't work this way (at least not yet). The good of humanity is achieved through a healthy balance of nation-states. It's just human nature. Actually, it's the same reason Communism doesn't work. "

Vagabond- all this says is that nation states are a temporary concept meant to constrain sinful people. Like the Communists, Christians look forward to a time when all the nation states will fade away.

	08-01-2003 12:29									#177
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quote: YOu know I always was fond of you until I found out that you were a two faced weasel!

I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, but then again I probably wouldn't remember anyway...

	08-01-2003 14:18									#178
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quote: Originally posted by orange when we stop looking at people of the world as nationalities, your question will resolve itself. The death of anyone will be considered a horrible tragedy. I'm afraid that's a long ways off

Amen to that

While I agree most of that hasn't happened yet, I believe "The death of anyone will be considered a horrible tragedy" is already true. Most of the world mourned on 11/9 (I'm a Brit, we write date's day first) because of the loss of life. It did not just affect Americans.

	08-01-2003 16:52									#179
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Respond to what? No one has actually addressed my initial question, that I have seen. The majority of the posts directed against me are simple attempts to justify a war on Iraq, which is not what I'm asking.

I have answered your original questions. I have not in any means attempted to deal with the justification of the war but morevoer why it is immoral to wish a protracted affair which is the logical outcome of an aggressor taking large casualties.

I refuse however to restate or clarify my posts if you choose to simply not read them as can be my only conclusion until you respond to my arguements.

I find your position very weak and moreover your tone undeservedly arrogant to simply think you are right because you simply can't phrase your questions so that most folks understood your intentions.

	08-01-2003 20:28									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue I believe "The death of anyone will be considered a horrible tragedy" is already true. Most of the world mourned on 11/9

I'll take issue with that.