04-01-2003 22:34									#1
	Morale SE setting Enter the AD-FREE zone

AFAIK, in order to produce Elite units, one has to have Command Center/Aerospace Complex/Naval Yard combined with Bioenhancement Center and +1 MORALE bonus (from Fundie, Power or Spartan inherent setting). My question is if additonal +2 MORALE (for a total of +3) can be used instead BC? In other words, can I train Elite Rovers with CC, Fundie and Power? +3 MORALE means, from Datalinks, "+2 Morale (+3 on defense)", but I have never noticed any difference between attack and defense (but maybe I'm wrong).

One more problem: how does unit gain those additional morale bonuses, displayed as small (+) and (-) along with Morale rating? To my astonishment, I have just recently built Elite Cruiser with only 8 (Maritime CC provided) movement points! That unit had a small negative bonus shown as (-) from the very moment it had been built. Did someone have the same? I'm slightly confused with this Morale problem, I must admit, and a long post explaining the whole issue would be very appreciated...

	05-01-2003 00:35									#2
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Kirov,

The mystery of moral.....

Here is my understanding.

In order to get elites you need come up with some combination of moral adders that get you a total of +5 moral steps.

This includes command/Aerospace/naval centers (or equivalent SP), Bioenhancement (or equivalent SP), Inherent faction bonus(or penalty), SE choice, High Moral ability.

That being said yes you can achieve elites and forego Bioenhancement centers by

Naval - +2
Power - +2
Fundy - +1
Total = +5

Or as Spartan
Naval- +2
Power +2
Inherent +1
Total = +5

or as Spartan
Naval +2
Fundy +1
Trained +1
Inherent +1
Total +5

Childrens creches add a +1 morale boost to any unit created whilst running negative Morale SE. So when running -1 SE morale (-1 morale is negated by the creche) This then allows builds of elites even while using Wealth for most factions if you use Fundy.

+'s and -'s come from a variety of things from morales above elite to creche added plusses to negatives from home bases in riot etc.

I've noticed the extra move point go away before when a (-) was present but I can't say that it was consistent as I belive I have times where the extra move was still available.

Og

	05-01-2003 01:02									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe +'s and -'s come from a variety of things

like what? i'd just like to find out how to get rid of the - that seems to be attached to most of my units

(not under wealth, BTW)

	05-01-2003 01:23									#4
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Who're you playing as? I think the Gaians have an inherent Morale problem...

	05-01-2003 01:30									#5
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Mucho thanks, Og. More questions I have:

1) Datalinks at CC states that "All negative MORALE effects are cancelled for units in
base square; instead such units receive a +1 MORALE modifier.". So it only confers for the units in base square, isn't it? Does moving the unit out of the base mean (under Wealth) it has negative morale bonus? It would cause very stupid effects, for instance, Very Green unit would be Disciplined in the base square (and only there)...

2) Could you give more examples of the things that cause '+' and '-'s? I haven't realised that drone riots drop morale.

3) Can transport and former be elite, to have +1 move point? It would work great for, let's say, infantry transport...

4) -2 MORALE is said to halve the positive bonus effect. Is it true? I have never seen that and I'm almost sure it's a humbug.

	05-01-2003 23:24									#6
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CS, CyCon, and before that the university. same thing.

kirov, i've seen formers be elite somehow...i know i've had some rover formers getting 3 moves.

	06-01-2003 01:39									#7
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Disclaimer (this is pretty much from memory so hopefully it holds correct. For further setails check out discussions at civgaming.net on this topic as well.)

Creches are kind of a wild card. They allow a permanent +1 morale increase when running negative morale SE settings. Whats more they impart a + for every negative morale step you would be running.

The 1/2 penalty of +2 facilties is very real when running morale SE's of -2 or greater.

A few examples to illustrate the effects:

1st example

-2 morale SE from running wealth
Creche
Command center
Bioenhancement center

a) -2 Morale SE starts with -2 morale steps and further penalizes any +2 facilites to only contribute +1
b) Creche adds one morale step futher it eliminates the -2 morale penalty of above but the 1/2 penalty remains.
c) Creche adds +
d) Command center +1
e) Bioenhancement +1

Net effect 3 morale steps and a plus = Veteran (+)

2nd example

-2 morale from Wealth
No creche
Command Center
Bioenhancement center

a) -2 morale step and 1/2 penalty
b) command center +1
c) Bioenhancement +1

Net effect 0 morale steps no plus = Green

3rd example

-1 Morale Wealth and Fundy
Command center
Bioenhancement
Special Ability High morale

a) -1 moral step (no 1/2 penalty)
b) creche adds one morale step
c) No plus accrue IIRC
d) Command center +2
e) Bioenhancement +2
f) High Morale +1

net effect 5 morale steps = elites.


And to whoever posed the question yes most certainly formers, transports, and crawlers can be elites.

	06-01-2003 05:20									#8
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This is something I've noticed as well - that sometimes I capture an enemy base and reassign my unit to that captured base for support. In so doing, the morale of my unit sometimes changes, either increasing or decreasing. This only happens when I reassign a unit to a new base. I don't know why, and it probably doesn't involve Children Creches because the units are already in the square before they are reassigned.

	06-01-2003 18:07									#9
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"And to whoever posed the question yes most certainly formers, transports, and crawlers can be elites."

In my current game, none of my formers or crawlers have a "morale indicator", even the armored ones. I thought that non-combat units gained morale by armoring them (Vel's guide refers to this). So, I'm not questioning the fact that these units can gain Elite status. Is the extra movement point the only way to tell, though?

	06-01-2003 20:08									#10
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From a cursory view yes the extra move is the way to see a noncomabt units morale.

IIRC though if you click on the square and the drop down box shows up allowing you to pick units in the square to activate you can see the inherent morale of formers and the like through that means as well.

Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on 06-01-2003 at 21:55

	07-01-2003 17:57									#11
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More info on crawler morale: One of my armored crawlers just survived a "sneak attack" by an elite Spartan Impact Squad (the crawler had 3-res armor, was sitting on a rocky square and also was near a sensor). I got a message box to the effect that the crawler was now "disciplined". However, still can't see the morale any other way (selecting the crawler from the drop-down menu does not show morale, but good suggestion!).

	08-01-2003 07:52									#12
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First, you can see the morale of a unit (any unit) by the size and shape of its owner flag. As morale increases, the flag gets various new outgrowths - it is a bit hard to describe without doing screenshots, and I can't be bothered to do that, but you will see what I mean if you look closely. Very green units have a plain flag, elites have a much bigger one.

Second, Ogie does a decent overview but muddies the waters a bit by making no distinction between Morale SE and unit morale effects and getting some numbers wrong.

Morale SE has exactly the effects the game says. Thus, for example, units get -1 unit morale under -2 Morale SE, and training facilities only add 1 instead of the usual 2. The extra morale you get on the defence at +2 and +3 Morale SE is marked with a single (+).

The children's creche has two distinct effects on units' fighting ability:

1. If your Morale SE is negative, it gives a +1 bonus to unit morale level (very green to green etc.) for units trained at the base. This means units trained at a base with a creche but no other morale enhancing facilities will be green at 0 Morale SE (no creche effect), also green at -1 or -2 Morale SE (-1 for the SE, +1 for the creche), and very green at -3 or -4 Morale SE (-2 or -3 SE, +1 creche, with very green being the lowest morale a unit can have). Bonuses from command centres etc are added to this, so with a command centre also in the base, unit morale should be as follows:

0 SE: Hardened (0 SE + 2 com)
-1 SE: Hardened (-1 SE + 1 creche + 2 com)
-2 SE: Disciplined (-1 SE + 1 creche + 1 com)
-3 SE: Green (-2 SE + 1 creche + 1 com)
-4 SE: Very green (-3 SE + 1 creche + 1 com)

The morale boost is permanent and independent of location.

2. The creche gives a temporary bonus to units in the base square. This bonus is marked as a series of (+)s, and is (1 + number of negative shifts from SE), ie (+) at 0 or above, (++) at -1 or -2, (+++) at -3 and (++++) at -4. Each (+) gives you a 12.5% combat strength bonus (the same as a shift in morale level). This bonus works both in attack and defence, but it is tied to the base square. If you leave it, the bonus is gone until you once again enter a creched base (which need not be the unit's home base).

Then there are three complications to this:

a. At +2 or +3 Morale SE, units get an additional bonus on the defence (as already mentioned). This is also marked as a (+) and is cumulative with the above, however, this (+) will not help your attack.

b. Very green units always have one (+), which only works in defence. It is superseded by the creche bonus above.

c. When their home base is in drone riots, units get a (-), which is a negative 12.5% modifier and cumulative with everything else.

With this, the actual results of Ogie's three examples are:

Ex. 1: Hardened (++)
Ex. 2: Disciplined
Ex. 3: Elite (+)

	08-01-2003 11:04									#13
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If you have 2 units occupying the same square, and click to activate, the pop-up box will advise "Hardened supply crawler" and "green former" etc.

Doent work with a single unit though.

(As an aside, in the Base Screen 'Forces Supported' box - bottom right - why do some units face left, some right, and some are head on? In a current game, their in-box position has no correlation to their on-map position)

G.

	09-01-2003 05:18									#14
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Tau Ceti -- Thanks for the tip about the flags. If I zoom in about three levels I see what you mean. Also found these symbols in FLAGS.PCX.

Googlie -- Yep, that's another way to see the morale of formers and crawlers.

Thanks

	09-01-2003 07:31									#15
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Thanks for clearing up the confusion Tau.

The theory was right but obviously the execution was questionable .

	12-01-2003 02:51									#16
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quote: Googlie asked: "As an aside, in the Base Screen 'Forces Supported' box - bottom right - why do some units face left, some right, and some are head on? In a current game, their in-box position has no correlation to their on-map position."

That's odd. In every game I've played, that correlation is persistent. All 8 facings are represented and 100% accurate.