04-01-2003 23:25									#1
	Pre-Poll: Seti's Assignment Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The title says it all.

Hoovers will be fairly complete when we get Electronics; there are no other wonders coming up. So it's basically between the palace and an army.

	04-01-2003 23:43									#2
	Re: Pre-Poll: Seti's Assignment Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep The title says it all. Hoovers will be fairly complete when we get Electronics; there are no other wonders coming up. So it's basically between the palace and an army.

hi ,

, ......

we need some armies , .....

have a nice day

	05-01-2003 00:38									#3
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Get the palace move over with. We're doing well enough on both fronts that an army might not be needed.

	05-01-2003 00:39									#4
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Yes, we need Armies, but the best way to get LOTS of Armies is to enable Ferropolis's Iron Works by moving the Palace to Macross City. We will not be able to do this till 1315 due to current palace shield holder in TFC, but that only makes one turn worth of elites (1310) not Leaderable. And realistically, we don't have that many elites to be really worried.

So my suggestion is:
1305
nothing

tweenturns
Atomic Theory completes
celebrate!
pick Electronics to study

1310
(cash) rush Factory in Macross City
set slider at 0% sci

tweenturns
ToE completes at G-Town
celebrate!
pick Radio then Steel to study


1315
Trade for Refinery
Trade for Ivory
Trade for Steel (if avail but doubtful)
Switch TFC from Palace to Hoovers
(Leader) rush Palace in Macross City
Adjust slider to 4 turn the current study
Cash rush corruption fighting stuff on Uber

This will put IW at Ferropolis
and Hoovers at TFC in 1345
Ferropolis should be able to do a factory in 3
Then Hospital in 2
Then adback pop
-edit- Military Academy in 4
and start cranking out Armies.

Naturally, our remaining cities will need to make units to fill these shells.

	05-01-2003 00:54									#5
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I agree with roadcage.

	05-01-2003 01:31									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I agree with roadcage also. we only lose one one turn where we cannot get a leader. The only thing is that some cities (like those one uber Isle) will be become more corrupt until courthouses are built, but we need Ferropolis to have minimal corruption to maximize the value of the Iron Works and we need to have better spacing between our Palace and FP.

	05-01-2003 01:57									#7
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SETI project!! It's perfect!!

just kidding

	05-01-2003 01:59									#8
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* Shiber hops on the bandwagon and agrees with Roadcage as well.

	05-01-2003 02:05									#9
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Let's build... BARRACKS!

	05-01-2003 02:08									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I would like to humbly suggest that we build the Intelligence Agency in my hometown of Dijon.


Just kidding!

I also love roadcage's plan, especially since it will put our capital in a city of Old France, complete Iron Works in a city of Old France, and dramatically reduce corruption in Old France - not that I have any bias.

	05-01-2003 02:22									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: I also love roadcage's plan, especially since it will put our capital in a city of Old France, complete Iron Works in a city of Old France, and dramatically reduce corruption in Old France - not that I have any bias.

Your rp bias is showing. Ferropolis is a newbuild city not in any way associated with Old France. But having said that, if the numbers suggested that we place the Palace in Ravenna, or Heidelberg, or wherever, I would not hesitate to plan the campaign to secure the buildsite.

But the numbers keep pointing to Macross City, if for no other reason than Ferropolis is nearby.

Ssgt roadcage (retired)

	05-01-2003 02:35									#12
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quote: Originally posted by roadcage Ferropolis is a newbuild city not in any way associated with Old France.

By "Old France" I merely mean that the cities in question (Macross City, Ferropolis) are in the Old France region, not that they were once French cities. And while I may be biased, this plan will aid the region of Old France greatly by reducing the corruption that currently is plaguing it, which is to the benefit of all Apolyton.

	05-01-2003 06:46									#13
	Support Apolyton

Why can't we do the trades for Refining & Steel (if someone has it) next turn, right before ToE is completed. THis should net us a more valueble trade, as the AI places (IMHO) a higher value on a tech that is coupled with a Wonder AND the wonder hasn't been built yet.

If anyone is worried about them possibly using a GL to build it, I have seen several cases where a tie has gone to the hooman and not the AI.

E_T

	05-01-2003 07:52									#14
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Hmm... I'm leaning towards palace now.

I'm just worried that will help support for a war against Alex. Give Greece a chance!

quote: Originally posted by skywalker Let's build... BARRACKS!

He'd have to be transported to Uber Island for that.

quote: Originally posted by E_T Why can't we do the trades for Refining & Steel (if someone has it) next turn, right before ToE is completed. THis should net us a more valueble trade, as the AI places (IMHO) a higher value on a tech that is coupled with a Wonder AND the wonder hasn't been built yet.

quote: Originally posted by E_T If anyone is worried about them possibly using a GL to build it, I have seen several cases where a tie has gone to the hooman and not the AI.

IIRC, all ties go to the human because of the order of turnplay and builds.

	06-01-2003 00:34									#15
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hi ,

, we would need like about four armies , that should do it , ....

we should wait to fill a couple up until we have modern armor and fill it up with only elite units , a couple others with two or three elite mech. infantry , we can always add more units when needed

have a nice day

	06-01-2003 00:36									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I agree with E_T. We should trade somehow for refining.

I have noticed this, however.... When you are nealy finished with the wonder, The AI devalues the wonder "value" of tech.

As of now Greece will trade scientific method for refining if we add LPT to it (I think 20). Point being that the AIs have devalued scientific method quite a bit as only 2 turns ago, the were willing to trade straight up for it.

Mss

	06-01-2003 00:38									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Ummm panag - NO. We use him to rush something. We'll get more elites with an uncorrupted Iron Works.

	06-01-2003 00:44									#18
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Ummm panag - NO. We use him to rush something. We'll get more elites with an uncorrupted Iron Works.

hi ,

read the above post again , where does it mention one Mr Seti , .......

have a nice day

	06-01-2003 06:23									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, the posters in this thread seem to support a palace move (to Macross City) over an army, 7 to 1.

Anyone want to argue before a bill is posted?

quote: Originally posted by ManicStarSeed I have noticed this, however.... When you are nealy finished with the wonder, The AI devalues the wonder "value" of tech. As of now Greece will trade scientific method for refining if we add LPT to it (I think 20). Point being that the AIs have devalued scientific method quite a bit as only 2 turns ago, the were willing to trade straight up for it.

Hmm... weird. But it could just be that they're researching Sci. Method on their own, hence the price going down as they get closer to completing research.

	06-01-2003 07:45									#20
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I like roadcage's plan!

	06-01-2003 08:21									#21
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Because the consensus seems to be to use Seti for the Palace move, we have 2 Game turns to fully deside as to were we want to move the Palace to.

Let's get the Poll started (3 days remember) and then play 2 turns. As the War turns takes a lot longer, that will get ut to the point of the debate for where we want the Palace to be at. THis will also allow us to get a few things Rush built the turn that we actually use Seti.

We need to look at all options of where we want to move the Palace. Do we want more of the Southern Contenant? Or is most of the North good enough for us? Where we plan to expand in the future, will really ultimatly deside were we move the Palace.

E_T

	06-01-2003 22:03									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Do we have enough cash to cash rush the Factory at Marcoss City this turn?

I think this might trim 1 turn off the Palace move if possible.

	06-01-2003 22:21									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I love the Palace in Macross City, as I was the one who got to name it that.........

	06-01-2003 22:45									#24
	Put an end to popups!

For the record if we can get a concensus on the palace move there would be no need for an official poll or if the poll is showing an obvious outcome at that point we can proceed, any if the 72hrs haven't been run.
Aggie

	06-01-2003 22:49									#25
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I support the palace move. Road Cage is always right.

	06-01-2003 22:51									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

I've just posted the bill.

	07-01-2003 00:29									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It is amazing that the developer of our Excel corruption model does not see the obvious conclusions from that model.

The difference in overall corruption level beween sensible locations (ones hat have atleast a partial orbit of cities nearby) is minimal.

There is HUGE difference in which cities are productive but not the overall total productivity.

There is HUGE difference in which enemy cities if any are culture flip candidates.

Now it so happens that most of our cities are developed so as to be productive if near one of the two culture centers. Hence Palace and Forbidden Palace locations simply dictate which cities will be productive.

Now the FP located in The Forbidden City which enables the 'cities by the hills' in old Persia.

The other culture center is the Palace which if moved to Macross City will enable the 'cities by the hills' in old France and eventually old Greece.

The bonus is that Ferropolis is a truly special city now building the IW and is suitably close to Macross City. Yes there are other cities that are closer, but Macross City also has significant 'flip' potential on the salient of Greece.