01-12-2000 04:38									#1
	Velociryx: Your first homework assignment Full PM-box? Change here!

About a month ago there was a discussion on the value of pod booming a base even before the hab limits. The basic operation would be to use your last built base to just crank out CPs to be used for pod booming your other bases.

I was of the opinion that it could be a valuable strategy if you find yourself on an island, or other restricted environment. Some of the advantages I see would be:

- faster overall growth since it is much easier for a size 2 base to recover from a CP build, than it would be for a base to grow from pop 3 to 4, or 5.
- with limited funds of the early game, you can selectively rush one building type in a base instead of trying to build from a uniform list, then devote that base to a certain task (build SP, prototype, research, etc.). This will allow you to get the most bang for your buck.

Since all of this is a study of creating turn advantage, I figured that you would like to take up this project. Unfortunately my time is quite limited and I don't usually have the opportunity to test theories out.

	01-12-2000 07:48									#2
	Put an end to popups!

Let me see if I understand how this pod boom thing works. Get ten pop 7 bases with sufficient minerals to build a colony pod in one turn each. Then set up a normal pop boom so that each turn your base grows by one and also produces a pod (remaining at pop 7). Run for 10 turns or so and then have all the pods join their base and you would have 10 pop 17 bases.

Is that how you do it?

jt

	01-12-2000 09:25									#3
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Jt,

One variation could run that way and if one built nothing but clean colony pods the approach could continue on and on.

More likely than not though what you have is but one or two bases doing said colony production pod and feeding a single target city (either a current or potential SSC) in this way the multiplicative facility effects are enhanced vs. the opportunity cost one would have by simply founding another base site (assuming there is space to do so).

My favorite approach though is a different spin using Planeatry Transit System and two crawlers on boreholes bringing in minerals. Set base to colony pod production and send first two colony pods produced to destination SSC. Last colony pod destroys the base but it gets reset on the same ground and respawns as a size three. Repeat ad-nauseum. Re-home crawlers ad-nauseum to newly founded base. This allows you to continue the super science city unfettered growth in SE choices that don't support pop boom. Also very nice approach to factions that can't effectively/easily pop boom.

However even this being the case, one nees to weight the opportunity lost. The two pods produced could have made two other bases sites (assuming space permits) at size three each vs. 2 more population points for a super science city. The better bargain probably lies in the two new bases. But since I like big cities my preference would be make the SSC bigger.

Now that I think of it in a super science city with a total tech multiplier of 14 those two specialists as librarians would add 84 research points vs. 6 working citizens in a brand new base sites bringing in roughly 16 mins and 5 econ and 5 rearch points. It would take a lot of time for those two bases to gain enough infrastructure to surpass what those two citizens added to a fully developed science city. Hmmm.... repondering... 'course that assumes you have a super science city in the first place and that means Collider and TOE sps in the same city (not likely until the game is under wraps), so more than likely the orignal thought holds true opportunity cost is greater than the short term gain except for extremely developed bases where multitpliers are already huge.


Voodoo,

I remember when I brought the concept of pod booming up many moons ago. Most people found it a huge loop hole and potential cheat. Vel, OTOH rightly looked at the other side of the coin. By not taking advantage of the colony pod to form a base any advantage would at best be temporary as the empire growth is linear and not geometric via base founding and base growth. Now as you point out if your growth opportunities are so limited i.e. your boxed in with no place to go, then the only growth opportunity you may have might be this approach. This was exactly what I was faced with in a Miriam Tech stag huge world blind research game and inthat case it was essential as I had no place to go, no one to conquer, and if I didn't do something fast I was never going to get off the rock.

	04-12-2000 19:17									#4
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Hey guys! Good topic, by the way. And the main reason I have never considered this (Pod-Booming) a "cheat" falls under the same general line of thinking that would allow a given base to build a crawler, and shoot it off toward a base that's currently working on a Secret Project. Everyone agrees that such a use of crawlers is acceptable, and it's the exact same principle where CP's are concerned.

The thing that keeps this from being a cheat in my mind is the inherent opportunity cost built into such activity (either Crawlers or CP's, actually). I'm certain that most everyone reading here will have a firm grasp on the whole notion of opportunity cost, but I'll elaborate that point just in case: Essentially, if you take the time and resource to build a CP and assign it's "point" of population to an existing base, rather than founding a new one, you're losing the opportunity to have a new production center, in exchange for the opportunity to shift one point of population from one of your existing bases to another. Well and good, so long as you are mindful of exactly what it is you're giving up.

Bear in mind that the chief advantage of founding new bases is to give you more production centers relative to your opponent. More production centers = more flexibility....so the essence of what you sacrifice when you elect to Pod-Boom is an element of flexibility (and least in terms of being able to produce MORE units at any given point, and eventually, the ability to support more units--at least somewhat important til the advent of clean reactors).

But more is not always better, and that depends on just HOW efficient your existing bases are (ie - it doesn't really matter that your opponent can crank out twice as many units as you at any given moment, if your bases can crank 'em out at least twice as quickly).

Anyway, yes....this is an excellent homework assignment, and I'm curious as to just how many wrinkles I can find in it....

-=Vel=-

	05-12-2000 00:32									#5
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JT, Ogie, and Vel,

It's been a while my friends! I have been off with my PS2 and trying to get into CTP2 (which I can't, btw) but SMAC is still my love. Anyway, on to the topic at hand...

I played around with the pop-booming thing and it is viable, iif (if and only if) you have base locations that can support lots of growth. Let's say you pump a base from size 7 to size 17 with pods. As long as you can continue to bring in pods, you have no worries. However, if your stream is interrupted, that pumped base better have the nutrients to maintain the inflated population. So, if you get blind sided by Yang, let's say, and you have to start producing units instead of pods, that size 17 base can quickly fall back to size 10 while you are taking car of Yang. So, if you want to pump a base, locate it near the sea and make sure you plant those kelp beds.

Btw, the best arrangement I have found to do the base pumping is to lay out a cross of four bases and put the pumpee in the middle. Vel has advocated this arrangement for the no-worked-squares strategem, but I am talking about a much wider spacing. Instead of a tight cross with the east west anchors 7 or 8 tiles away, space them so that the middle base can still work all it's squares. Of course, if you go to all the time and trouble of getting such an arrangement, your probably wasting your time (opportunity cost again), but it is still fun to try!

Laters gang!

-Kinjy

	05-12-2000 06:04									#7
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Well, I looked at this recently. Took a scenario provided by White Elephants who was interested in exploring pod booming. Played it twice - once using pod booming, once following my usual system.

My usual system - ie without pod booming - beat the snot out of a pod booming approach. Course, everyone has their own playing style. But for me, the case is closed. The opportunity cost is far too high, except perhaps for highly unusual situations where there are no expansion possibilities at all. And even then, I suspect I could find better uses for my production.

It might be more viable when playing a faction that cannot pop boom normally. But for a pop booming faction, my experiment indicated that it was a disaster.

	07-12-2000 11:08									#8
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One situation where I think it might be an advantage is with a production heavy - research weak faction like the drones. I usually play stagnant tech so I often am in a situation where I don't have anything to build. If I have a science city and I'm at my population limit, I can use other cities to feed it pods and ramp it's research production way up. The population hit is minor especially if I'm in a boom or near boom situation and I don't really have much to build anyway.

	07-12-2000 11:09									#9
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Early game though, I don't think it's much of a viable option except in very specialized circumstances.