06-01-2003 01:23									#1
	Turn 26 Suffering from ads?

Preparing the turn, for discussions.

Movement:
- Assuming Thadeus remains fortified, Grog moves 9, to eventually see one more tile. After this (next turn) he'll return to the hill and fortify there. If Thadeus surprisingly goes away from the isthmus, Grog moves on it.
- Ouch moves 8 and is expected to see Willy again.
- Slash moves 4 and the following 3 turns straight north.
- Assuming Tim goes 2, Hack remains at his position. To move him 1 to block Tims success south, would mean to attract him to the direction to our capital instead to distract him along the coast.

Economy:
- The switch irrigated fur plains vs fur forest between EotS and Hurricane will be taken back. No change in the sliders.

Science:
- Pottery ready next turn.
- What to research next? You have one day for a compromise, please hurry up with your discussion on that matter.

Discuss!

	06-01-2003 01:50									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If we were alone I'd definitely go for Bronze Working, but now that we've met Vox, shouldn't we consider the possibility that they would trade it with us for one of our techs?
Then again, they'd probably prefer not to give us Bronze Working. Even though, I'd still prefer to test the grounds and see if Vox would make some sort of trade before we start researching Bronze Working ourselves.

	06-01-2003 02:36									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Given their attitude thus far, I'm hard put to imagine Vox trading us BW.

I think we need to research it ourselves, and it should be next.

	06-01-2003 02:37									#4
	Re: Turn 26 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph - Pottery ready next turn. - What to research next? You have one day for a compromise, please hurry up with your discussion on that matter.

This is a tricky question.

Techs that we have at the moment:

Masonry
Pottery
The Wheel
Ceremonial Burial

Research Options:

Bronze Working
Alphabet
Warrior Code
Mysticism

If we could somehow be sure that Vox would trade the Bronze Working to us, then not research it, otherwise i'd say thats the way to go. We have so much jungle and mountains what are unpassabe by WC's that we need those Swordsmen badly if Vox decides to make use of their Immortals against us.

	06-01-2003 04:30									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If decide to put a city up North in the jungle (see my comments in the Spartan Academy thread), Warrior Code would be a integral to keeping their Immortals at bay. It also leads us to Monarchy, which will be necessary in case of a long war.

Bronze Working we need in any case (conflict or no), so that seems the safest bet right now. Both BW and Warrior Code will take 6 turns to research. Alphabet takes 10, Mysticism 8.


Dominae

	06-01-2003 04:33									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

How about if we keep the discussion of what tech to research next on the thread dedicated to that purpose?

	06-01-2003 17:50									#7
	Got spare money?

Turn is here.

Thadeus got Rodney as reinforcement and remained at his position. Since it is possible, that Rodney is trying to slip through as well, I go propose to south 2-3 with Grog and north 8-7 with Slash and make a defense line at the 2 shielded grasslands. This way we won't risk to have to deal with 3 scouts. If Rodney doesn't show up next 2-3 turns, he probbly remained at the isthmus, and we can try to move north with our warriors again.

Hack moves 1 and blocks Tims success south, as was suggested. Ouch moves 8 and sees Willy, as predicted. The switch between irrigated fur plans and fur forest taken back. Pottery ready in 1 turn at 80% science. We possess 7 gold and make 3 next turn.

Objections?

	06-01-2003 17:53									#8
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Looks good to me... seems pretty straightforward. I like the idea to block the 2-tile part of the NoF.

	06-01-2003 17:57									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Team stats:

53 (+2) Gathering Storm
63 (+1) Demogyptica
57 (+1) Glory of War
59 (+2) Role Play
55 (+1) Vox Controli
50 (+1 ) Lux Invicta
58 (+1) Legoland

No change in the powergraph. We see 4 warriors of theirs. If the 4 warrior theory is true, their cities must be undefended.

	06-01-2003 18:14									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yes, backtrack to the shielded grasslans pair, if they dont advance there, then go back, but carefully, so Rodney wont slip trough. 2 enemy warriors in our lands is bad enough, we dont want a third one there.

	06-01-2003 18:39									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Agreed on all counts. Move Grog back, and once Slash is present, try to advance again to block right next to Thadeus. We don't need 3 scouts of theirs if they don't allow us to have 1.

The 4 Voxian warriors seem obvious, I still don't see any other possibility than that. Leaving their cities completely undefended is a strange move of theirs, either they have met someone accross the coast (1 tile sea in between 2 continents, warrior on both sides allows to contact them), or they have an alliance with someone they trust completely. I don't like neither option

DeepO

	06-01-2003 18:43									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Plan change: Grog remains at the hill. If Rodney tries to slip through, we deny the hill from him and he shall go 6. In that case we have enough time to go back later. If Rodney remains at the isthmus, we can make the defense line where Grog is right now.

	06-01-2003 18:57									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Final summary:

Grog fortifies at the hill.
Slash moves 4 at the mountain.
Hack moves 1 to the south of Tim.
Ouch moves 8 and sees Willy at the predicted place.

The tile change between EotS and Hurricane is taken back. Pottery ready next turn. We have 7 gold and are making +3/turn at 2.8.0.

Screenshots are prepared to be sent. F11 and zoom this time, no change in power.

	06-01-2003 19:05									#14
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Okay, some discussion for next turn, perhaps, but what happens if we get a message from Vox, where they agree to let Grog pass, and move one warrior back, and one to the front? If we move Grog, we can't help it if they move 3, or even 4 (once they are built) warriors close to our borders, but having Grog explore their land for a while would of course be good to. Once he moves through, Grog is officially missing in action, every bit of information he can give us is fine, but we can't expect him to live long once war breaks out.

DeepO

	06-01-2003 19:14									#15
	Tired of ads?

It won't happen, I'm pretty convinced. But if it happens, Grog moves on the isthmus, of course. If the right to explore is mutual, the # of explorers doesn't matter much, especially if one territory is much larger than the other. This must be the case, otherwise they would still explore their own instead of sticking their nose in our lands.

Turn will be sent soon. Objections?

	06-01-2003 19:21									#16
	Got spare money?

Go ahead and send it, everything is more or less straight forward, I don't see any objections possible.

DeepO

	06-01-2003 19:28									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Ok, turn sent. Screenshots in a few minutes.

	06-01-2003 20:05									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

BTW, notice that Neu Theben dropped off the F11 list. I was wrong in assuming they were building a granary for a settler pump, they built a temple or barracks instead (and now a settler, of course). If we can keep Vox off our lands, we are going to be the fastest expanders

DeepO

	06-01-2003 20:15									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Bronzeworking for research. A fourth warrior, huh? Does that mean their entire military is pointed at us?

How irritating.

-Arrian