07-01-2003 00:32									#1
	The difference between copying and cracks Put an end to popups!

No-CD cracks modify the game software, and are illegal under the license agreement.

Making a backup of a game is not illegal, and in some cases is the right of the consumer.

So, if someone wanted to know how to copy the Civ3 CD, would I be allowed to help him? If not, why not?

	07-01-2003 00:56									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

yes, it's legal to copy your own CD for purposes of backing up / archiving / whatever. it's a hazy line and markos will say no to everything because he's markos.

	07-01-2003 01:15									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

^^ Note that in some countries (Australia, New Zealand, I think even the EU), the right to make a backup is explicitly stated within the law, meaning that a license agreement cannot override it.

But you're right -- clock's ticking, on when this gets closed.

	07-01-2003 01:17									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It's legal to make multiple copies for your own personal use. Not that this will matter here at 'poly.

	07-01-2003 01:32									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

And backup copy is legal as long as it's only used for purposes of, well, backup. As soon as you give/sell it to a friend, it's illegal.

	07-01-2003 01:34									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I could sell it as long as I delete all my copies and transfer all the original manuals and what not. Am I right?

	07-01-2003 03:28									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

technically, yes.

markos believes in the slippery slope theory, once you are allowed to talk about legally copying a cd, people will begin to talk about how to copy the cd so they can give it to their best friend. better to just kill all talk of copying and leave it at that. no grey area makes it easier to moderate

	07-01-2003 03:47									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It's legal to make multiple copies for your own personal use. Not that this will matter here at 'poly.

with computer software, it's one copy, one machine, as stated in the licence. you can;t copy civ3 to play on multiple machines.

	07-01-2003 03:57									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

* MarkG at H Tower's explanation

when apolyton is the last site on the internet where discussions about copying game cd's for backup reasons can be possibly made, let me know. until then, there are sites(with servers in transylvania and huge disclaimers) exclusively devoted for that kind of stuff...

Last edited by MarkG on 07-01-2003 at 04:03

	07-01-2003 04:48									#10
	Put an end to popups!

And these sites can discuss ways of getting around copy protection too.

But it seems fair enough not to have that discussion on 'Poly. I mean, who actually makes backup copies of their cd's, and why?

	07-01-2003 04:53									#11
	Tired of ads?

zulu, there is PM and e-mail... Not to mention numerous other sites for this stuff, as Markos says... If you really want to know it´s not hard to find out

	07-01-2003 04:54									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Skanky are you stalking me?

	07-01-2003 04:58									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

You don't need Poly for cracks and suchlike - it's not hard to look for that sort of thing. This site is more about the freely available downloads (scenarios, maps, patches) and discussing the gameplay. I have seen little if any hardcore code discussions here, and modifying the game in such a non-conventional way (conventional would be through using scenario tools) is not what this site, IMO, is about. If we classify crack discussion as such a technical issue, then you shouldn't find it here.

Good thread, BTW.

	07-01-2003 06:10									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

All of what has been said is kind of funny, since I was told about the NoCD crack right here on good ole' Apolyton.

ACK!

	07-01-2003 06:51									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

that just means the mods didn't catch you. it doesn't mean it was right. with this rule, markos remains in the clear, and he can point to evidence that he tries to enforce it, ming's always closing this kind of thread.

	07-01-2003 06:57									#16
	Suffering from ads?

quote: markos remains in the clear,

and stand on a good relationship with game compagnies for things such as interviews, chats and even having them as members posting.....

Allthough, maybe the nocd for PTW's european edition could have been an exception to the rule...

	07-01-2003 07:03									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

slippery slope, slippery slope.

	07-01-2003 07:11									#18
	Remove this text

Ouch! I think I just slipped and hit my head.

(on the slippery slope that is)

Last edited by Oerdin on 07-01-2003 at 07:18

	07-01-2003 07:12									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by H Tower that just means the mods didn't catch you. it doesn't mean it was right. with this rule, markos remains in the clear, and he can point to evidence that he tries to enforce it, ming's always closing this kind of thread.

I should rephrase that. I wan't told about I read about it in these forums, I don't actually have the crack itself.

ACK!

	07-01-2003 07:25									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We delete any links the second we see them, or they are reported. We do what we can.

	07-01-2003 07:29									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I have a question which may seem dumb to you. In this age of CD burners why does anyone who wants to use warez even need a no cd crack. Couldn't they just download the program, burn it, and then play?

	07-01-2003 07:57									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Easy of use...

The cd doesn't need to be in the drive, which saves on

1. electricity
2. noise (especially if you have a very vast cd-rom)
3. wear on the cd and drive
4. time (game starts faster and you don't have to look/search for the cd)
5. ?

	07-01-2003 11:49									#23
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It also helps when the CD protection prevents a game from starting correctly...

	07-01-2003 12:20									#24
	Remove this text

Yup- and I had that happen from Homeworld:Cataclysm; didn't like my DVD drive at all and would only run with a cracked .exe.

Pretty messed up- the whole industry really.

	07-01-2003 12:26									#25
	Remove this text

Copy protection also uses system resources, apparently even after it has initially verified the cd and loaded the game. Some people have reported that their legal copy of a game would run slowly, and a simple application of a nocd patch would allow the game to run decently.

	07-01-2003 12:28									#26
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt (conventional would be through using scenario tools)

Scenario tools? Naive Civ3er...

quote: Originally posted by H Tower ming's always closing this kind of thread.

And all other mods too

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I have a question which may seem dumb to you. In this age of CD burners why does anyone who wants to use warez even need a no cd crack. Couldn't they just download the program, burn it, and then play?

Most games have some form of copy-write protection these days. Not that these protection mechanisms are particularly hard to get around, but then again, most pirats aren't particularly bright

	07-01-2003 12:35									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Copy protection also uses system resources, apparently even after it has initially verified the cd and loaded the game. Some people have reported that their legal copy of a game would run slowly, and a simple application of a nocd patch would allow the game to run decently.

Although I suppose it would have to be looked at on a game-by-game basis, I think this is not so much an issue of CD protection software, but more an issue of where the game gets its data from: when offered with the choice to get files either from the CD or from the HDD, some games prefer to get their data from the CD, even though the HDD is faster. The noCD patch eliminates the option to get data from the CD, forcing the game to use the HDD data and thus speeding the game up. That's also why hacked games often miss intro movies and stuff, since such things are usually stored solely on CD...

	07-01-2003 12:42									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Personally, I think the best thing about no-cd cracks are that you don't have to switch CD:s all the time. I mean, in a world where everybody is used to remote controls, 5 disc CD carousels or HDD MP3 players, somebody still expects us to do the mightily exhaustive task of switching PC CD:s all the time.

On the other hand, I'm too lazy to download the no-cd cracks for every new patch, so I still end up switching CD:s frequently.

	07-01-2003 13:00									#29
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The best solution imaginable would be if the government would pss a law restricting copy right holders from blocking CD owners from accessing their own CDs.