07-01-2003 05:29									#1
	Another question for Libertarians Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

One day Bill Gates' tea is spiked with LSD, he decides to buy an island and set up the perfect Libertarian state, i.e. no tax, no law, no government, no nothing. Everyone is free to come and go as they like, nothing is forbidden.

Do you move there?

And isn't that anarchy anyway?

	07-01-2003 05:51									#2
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Wait until a pyscho goes nuts and starts shooting people. Guns are legal but there are no cops around because every good libertarian knows cops=police state.

After that maybe people will get their heads out of the clouds and come back to earth.

	07-01-2003 05:59									#3
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It depends on the libertarian you ask. Some are anarchists, some minimal statists.

	07-01-2003 06:24									#4
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quote: the perfect Libertarian state, i.e. no tax, no law, no government, no nothing.

Libertarians aren't anarchists.

	07-01-2003 06:26									#5
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Libertarians aren't anarchists.

Some are. I know quite a few who styled themselves as anarchists for capitalism.

	07-01-2003 06:30									#6
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quote: Libertarians aren't anarchists.

What's the difference?

	07-01-2003 06:32									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Graag What's the difference?

I've been wondering along these lines as well.

	07-01-2003 06:51									#8
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The difference is that in a Libertarian system you may not violate the rights of another.

	07-01-2003 06:52									#9
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but people inevitably will. What happens to them if they do?

	07-01-2003 06:55									#10
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd The difference is that in a Libertarian system you may not violate the rights of another.

Oh, ok then, the only thing forbidden is that you may not directly cause harm to another person.

Do you move there?

	07-01-2003 06:55									#11
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Floyd's being sectarian. Do not take his word for it.

	07-01-2003 09:50									#12
	Re: Another question for Libertarians Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Graag One day Bill Gates' tea is spiked with LSD, he decides to buy an island and set up the perfect Libertarian state, i.e. no tax, no law, no government, no nothing. Everyone is free to come and go as they like, nothing is forbidden. Do you move there? And isn't that anarchy anyway?

The question I have is does he allow the gun totin' crack whore to babysit his kids for a week. After all, guns drugs and prostitution are legal and don't harm anyone.

	07-01-2003 09:52									#13
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quote: The question I have is does he allow the gun totin' crack whore to babysit his kids for a week.

There's a difference between bad influences and rights violations. It's stupid to use drugs, therefore you probably don't want your kids to have heavy exposure to them, but on the other hand, if your kid sees a drug, his rights haven't been violated. That makes it a parenting question, not one for government.

	07-01-2003 10:45									#14
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Taking the thread question at face value: it depends on what's available on the island in terms of jobs, recreation, supplies, etc. Also what Gates is charging to rent or buy a home. A libertarian government is a big plus, but it's not the only ingredient of a quality life. But if everything else was anywhere near equal to where I live now, I'd be on that island as soon as I could persuade my wife.

And it's not anarchy if there are rules against rights violations and the means to enforce them, which is implied by Graag's third post.

	07-01-2003 10:54									#15
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Rex, thankyou for answer number 1!

Rather than actually describe the theoretical conditions on the island, I'm more inaarested in whether libertarians would actually move themselves (and families) to such a state.

Though to be honest the more I think about the question it is a bit crap.

What I'm getting at is would people who argue for this style of government actually feel comfortable living in it.

	07-01-2003 14:06									#16
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd There's a difference between bad influences and rights violations. It's stupid to use drugs, therefore you probably don't want your kids to have heavy exposure to them, but on the other hand, if your kid sees a drug, his rights haven't been violated. That makes it a parenting question, not one for government.

I'm sorry, David, but the problem is diminished capacity not bad influence, although that is a problem as well. The crack whore is not likely to protect the kids or feed them or change their diapers. In fact, crack whore just might kill them with her gun in some delusional state. Her customers may also molest the kids.

But this is just an example. As you suggest, Gates doesn't have to put his kids with a crack whore babysitter. However, if you own mother is a crack whore, that is another story.

Drugs cause harm.

	07-01-2003 14:15									#17
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Drug wars cause harm and don't prevent the harm caused by drugs.

	07-01-2003 14:16									#18
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Oh, as long as the island isn't spewing lava, sure.

	07-01-2003 14:21									#19
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Libertarians cause harm by refusing to acknowledge the realities of the world we live in. I hope your kids (should you find a girl willing to marry you) won't be molested but with your naive attitude I suspect that is a greater possibility of that occuring then with your average man.

	07-01-2003 14:32									#20
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd The difference is that in a Libertarian system you may not violate the rights of another.

But what's there to enforce this *ahem* rule? And who's to decide what rights can a person have?

	07-01-2003 17:09									#21
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I'm afraid this Libertarian island is becoming a police state.