07-01-2003 13:29									#1
	Advice on Thinker Level Game Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

All,

I'm playing my first game on Thinker level (SMAC) and wanted to see how other players would handle the following.

Player faction: Peacekeepers

Year: 2276

Diplomacy:
pact with Gaians
vendetta with Believers
treaty with Yang
no status with Spartans
(other factions eliminated)

Map: Standard

Options: Blind research, tech stagnation


There are two main landmasses: one to the south, one to the north. I'm on the Southern continent, and Miriam is on the Northern one. I share a long border with the Spartans. Miriam is the dominant faction, with a lead in everything except tech and wealth. She has 30 Missile Infantry (6/3/1), 20 Missile Artillery (6/1/1), and a small air force. I have 12 Impact Squads (4/1/1) and the Air Power Doctrine. Deidre is under attack in the far North. There are only two ways to reach the Northern continent. (1) By sea, through a New Sargasso that slows ships to a crawl. This route would put me just to the west of Miriam's empire and shore cities. (2) By sea and then by landing on the shore of the continent's southern underbelly. This would mean that I would have to go through a huge desert area to reach Miriam.

I can only see three ways to approach the problem:

1. Miriam has the momentum and should be stopped, but how do I stop her given my small, tech-poor army and the large distance between our civs? It should be noted that I have Probe teams and nerve gas pods (although I prefer not to commit atrocities).

2. I can continue to build my infrastructure and do research (currently at 9 turns), and hope that I get the edge in technology.

3. I can assent to her occasional demands to declare vendetta on Yang, whose faction is insignificant.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

	07-01-2003 16:58									#2
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If Miriam is that far away and sharing landmass with another faction I wouldn't worry. I'd focus on maxing out hab limits whilst using foil/cruiser probes to get even on tech. If miriam is out of jet range and decides to come visiting, it will in all likelihood be with no more than 4 units at a time. Just be sure to put in sensors around the bases on the shores facing her and keep a couple of attack rovers ready for picking off whatever she decides to land.

As for the spartans: Give them whatever they want to leave you alone to grow, but be ready for a defensive war at least while growing.

	07-01-2003 21:14									#3
	Got spare money?

You already have doc air so do as omniblade says and grow, grow grow. If you could direct research I would say head for MMI and then drop some bases closer and closer until you were in attack range. Since you cannot count on that I would look at your situation as one in which it is probably just as hard for Miriam to hit you as it is for you to hit her . So


1. Build a few best weapon interceptors to look for Believer transports. Remember to end their patrols back inside you landmass to avoid unhappiness if running FM

2. Run FM if you can for the tech benefits ( assuming you gave the energy restriction lifting tech ( EE))-- The idea is that you are safe for now so try to race up the tech tree a bit

3.Use probeships to infiltrate and probesteal from everyone you can-- you speak little of the spartans-- what is their situation-- tech and development

4. Consider attacking the spartans-- I hate having a long border with a possibly hostile faction-- If they have good development and no airpower, consider timing the building of several needlejets and the amssing of forces on the border with a move out of FM. The idea is to hit quickly for maximum gain-- Only do this if there is a clear benefit. If sparta has good defenses and piddly bases, it may not be worthwhile


Overall, I would say that you need to strengthen yourself and grow toward Miriam before launcing the attack. Proberaping enemies to secure the tech lead and building up a massive force are recommended. DO NOT dribble forces at an enemy as the AI does-- Whomever you strike, gather sufficient forces (assuming some bad battle outcomes) and wham

Hope this helps (it would have been easier if you had attached the file)

	08-01-2003 01:04									#4
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Slight amendment to Flubber's excellent response -

when running FM, interceptors that end their turn in your sea territory also do not cause pacifism drones.

I suggest also that you give some thought to finding (or building) a base for which you can crawl subsitence levels of nuts after turning all the pop to specialists, Crawl also sufficient minerals to support whatever non-SAM aircraft you want to have...home them all in this base. (build a childrens' creche here as well if you are running WEALTH) This concept, called a 'poor man's punishment sphere' by some, will permit you to field at least a few attack aircraft. Miriam will often use armoured transports, sometimes best weapon interceptors are a dubious bet to sink them. Also, the farther from your coast you can attack (and hopefully sink) her transports, the better. Using interceptors to do so puts them outside of non-pacifism range. Units based in your 'poor man's sphere' will not cause pacifism drones wherever they are deployed.

	08-01-2003 03:16									#5
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Ahh Excelent Opportunity to say that FM is evil:
FM is Evil!
Planned&Demo!!

	08-01-2003 04:52									#6
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Mongoose

thanks for the correction-- that oversight only complements the many typos of my last post


Main Brain

I am assuming that your last post was based on a general political/ideological feel and not on any opinion as to the strongest styles of play. IMHO the strongest play will entail usage of each of FM/ Planned and Green at appropriate times ( if available to your faction)

	10-01-2003 11:59									#7
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Thanks all for the good advice. I especially like the ideas about probeships and the "poor man's punishment sphere."

Just to update, before the Gaians were destroyed, I got Missile tech from Deidre. As I was building a force to attack Miriam, the Spartans attacked. We had a brief war, and afterwards I continued to build. Then the Spartans attacked again. This time, I'm not going to give Santiago a blood truce.

	10-01-2003 15:32									#8
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It's interesting to deatil a temporary variant of the all-specialist army-supporting base.
It often works well also with a newly founded base, for that purpose exactly.
That has very small food requirements, and a size 1 base is indeed capable of feeding itself just off the basetile.
So, no food-crawling would be necessary, and only minerals would need to be crawled in (and not even those if you use Clean units). Moreso, that "outpost" to let be growing to size 2, could even be detrimental.

The only caveat is that a size1 outpost is more vulnerable and flexible. For instance, an X-weapon would wipe it out in one blow.
Or, if its mineral-crawlers get killed and you don't have an immediate backup at hand, you won't have enough workers to put on the field to temporarily make up for the support, and your army would have to be immediately rehomed or perish!
Also, you'd have to pay the maintenance for an AeroComplex and a Creche, and eventually a Command Center (and the initial investment for a Perimeter), if you want to provide a minimum defense to the outpost, without really otherwise exploiting the other benefits of those facilities.

	11-01-2003 00:02									#9
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Running blind tech stag you are going to find yourself in an extended period of vunerability to planet busters.

I normally would build a perimeter defense consisting of bases that are most or less present for buffers (and can be little specialist bases or whatnot). Add some bunker airfield combos with approprite empath rover protection. Then empty those core bases to prevent a dissapointing turn.

	11-01-2003 06:27									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I disagree with going Planned/Demo as LAL, the the low efficiency isn't worth the growth, when you can go Demo/FM/Wealth and still pop boom by getting your cities in Golden Age. Set your energy rates to 30/20/50, and if you've done your homework and gotten the (mandatory for Lal) Human Genome project, you'll be breeding like yeast and swimming in cash and tech in no time.

Use the cash you're making to rush build every base facility under the sun, as well as the dreaded crawler upgrade tricks, when you decide to crash-build your wonders. Don't rush out to challenge Miriam, with her tech penalty she's not going to get a run-away win, and since she runs Fundie by default, her ground forces should eat up most of her mineral production. If you don't share a landmass, those ground forces _will_ be wasted.

I'd put off picking a fight with Santiago until you're in a solid tech lead, but don't piss her off until you're ready to take her out. Unfortunately, running Wealth will really get you on her bad side, so you might want to pick knowledge if you have the appropriate tech, the extra research and efficiency will server you well, but not as well, IMO as extra industry and econ from Wealth.

	11-01-2003 21:13									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

CEO - He posted initially this is a SMAC game, ergo GA fueled pop booms are inoperative.