08-01-2003 02:31									#1
	diplo: updates on minimap Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

If the ones who contacted other teams could help keep this thread on this important topic udated

We don't want to forget(be rude) to others either, do we


so far:
--------------------------
Neu Demogyptyca : alva :
message sent and received
Minimap sent and recieved(see GS-mail)

6/1/03
---------------------------
Legoland :
Offer sent by PM on 7/1/03. minimap 3950 BC offered.
No response yet. (DeepO)


---------------------------
Rollplay :
Offer sent by PM on 7/1/03. minimap 3950 BC offered.

GK replied 7/1/03, saying everything was fine.

DeepO then replied (8/1/03), saying minimap will be sent to GK when home from work.

Minimap received by DeepO from GodKing, forwarded to our mailing list and e-mail (notify me if you wouldn't have received it)

GS Minimap sent to GK (and in BCC to our mailbox, so we can all use the same one) 8/1/03.

8/1/03: offer to GK, asking for contact information, and possible meeting of scouts

9/1/03: response from GK, telling we are not on the same continent, and they have met 2 civs ingame. Meeting is possible

9/1/03: response to GK, telling Vox is blocking us from meeting them, possible meetingspot at Isthmus (kind of a gamble, as we don't know for sure they have met.)


-----------------------------
GoW :

6/1/03- ambassador (Zeit) sends Panzer32 a PM- stating that the GS members have come to an agreement- and desire a minimap trade.

7/1/03- Panzer32 replies- sends GoW agreement for this tradeoff.

8/1/03-Zeit sneds Panzer32 the details of the trade- the minimaps of the turn in which the capital was settled.

9/1/03- UNEXPECTED SETBACK: Panzer32 informs Zeit that he might not have an early minimap of their starting location(!?!?)
----------------------------
LUX :

Dominae has contacted LUX, he will edit soon
(alva) 8/1/03


----------------------------
VOX :

Last edited by alva on 10-01-2003 at 19:43

	08-01-2003 17:36									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Very well, i just recieved Panzer32's (GoW) response to the offer- once again, his reply was a dull: "very well, send me your email address and we trade, mine is ...." - where is the fun in diplomacy and roleplay- definitely not an issue for him. (almost like dealing with the AI).

So, what are we going to trade- updated, 4000BC, blacked out maps, or...?

	08-01-2003 18:37									#3
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And one more thing- since it seems we are trading our 3950BC minimap for theirs, i think its appropriate that a single version of it is sent to our "secret mailbox"- not to cause any confusion and also making more "official" being the first piece of military intelligence we are going to share.

I think i already deleted that picture, so, anyone care to send it?

	08-01-2003 18:48									#4
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Zeit, I was thinking the same thing, and should still have it at home. If I'm first, I'll cut it and send it.

BTW, when others have settled in 4000 BC, it would be enough for me to get that map for our 3950 BC map. The whole point is that the deal is equal, and we see as much tiles from them as they from us. Plus, in our case no sea is visible, where the little bit more exploration could lead to see some sea on other's map.

DeepO

	09-01-2003 02:32									#5
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There still two teams we havn't contacted yet??

Ah ,Zeit has..

Zeit, could you edit the first post with correct/current info?

	09-01-2003 18:54									#6
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Updated

	09-01-2003 19:21									#7
	Remove this text

We can tell GoW that we can make a blacked-out minimap with our icon marking our starting location, and that they can do the same.

	09-01-2003 21:38									#8
	Support Apolyton

Next question: do we want to trade current minimaps with RPG?

I think it is a bit risky, but may be worth it. For the moment I'll abstain

DeepO

	09-01-2003 21:50									#9
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1. Do we need theirs?

and if we do it, let's do it before our third city is founded (they will notice it anyway, but still)


btw: that was alot of info sharing

	09-01-2003 22:05									#10
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Yep, it was. But I figured we should be not the last one to cross the bridge always, I'm half expecting that GK contacts me next with either an answer on how to contact around Vox, or with more info on the other one they met.

There are only 2 options on how he could know we are not on the same continent:
- he knows it from Vox, who is not on the same continent.
- he doesn't know Vox, but is on an island himself.

option 2 is very unlikely, as otherwise they would not try to contact others that they know are close. So, he must know Vox.

DeepO

	09-01-2003 22:15									#11
	Remove this text

I've been in favor of trading full minimaps all along. (Edit: All along since we started reevaluating our minimap position after Vox learned so much about us, that is.)

	09-01-2003 22:18									#12
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I still say it's ND...(or no one on the same landmass)

Maybe they are near the edge of their continent themselves, explored north but didn't see the continent spread to the east enought to think/assume we are on the same one.

	09-01-2003 23:14									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Okay, are there any other opinions on full minimap trades? I still find it not very safe for as long as we don't know we can settle all we want before someone else discovers MM, builds a galley, sail it over to our territory, and plops down a settler. I'm not sure, it may be that we can settle all our planned cities before anyone has enough time to do this, but if I was in an isolated position, I would certainly get to another continent asap. And the beauty of our spot is that if we manage to fill it full with cities, it will be relatively easy to defend from outsiders.

But, if we trade full minimaps now, or in 20 turns time won't matter, what we have uncovered could be enough for any civ to start expanding our way. We can't scout much more anyway, unless Vox gives in.

DeepO

	09-01-2003 23:46									#14
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not sure on this one.

Do we want to know we are isolated (too)?

Some general directions or saying we can see water to the west of us should be enough for now.

We should look how the other maps line-up anyway IMHO.

	09-01-2003 23:54									#15
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We could try to change minimaps with ND, but I doubt they will agree. Their map is probably much bigger than ours, they are expansionists after all, and would give one of their main advantages away, even it's only a minimap.

	10-01-2003 00:16									#16
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They did ask to do so a couple of weeks ago. But it is taking them long to answer which to me indicates,

1. they are divided?
2. Need to contact an other team on this matter (Vox?)
3.just have changed their mind,
4. don't see this matter as 'urgent' (like we did with GK)
5.?

I sent a second PM to Borc (just in case tulumalu? didn't get it or doesn't know about it)
The only thing I added was that we ARE prepared to swap 4000bc maps, instead of leaning towards the idea of doing so.

	10-01-2003 00:59									#17
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You should direct all diplomatic notes to Borc. He's the only one, who visits Apolyton daily. Perhaps I can duplicate them by email, when I send the turn to ND, as they are our successor.

	10-01-2003 15:58									#18
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good news....!!

ND will swap minimap 4000bc.
they will send it soon.

	10-01-2003 19:16									#19
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Hmm... that's odd, Panzer32 said he only has 3450BC picture- with some exploration done, but agreed (or more correctly- offered) to share it with us for our 390BC picture. Those GoW are more generous than it seems. I told you we can take advantage of them.

	10-01-2003 19:41									#20
	Increase the size of your Attachments

[diplomat]
Then maybe we should return the favour
[/diplo]

	10-01-2003 19:51									#21
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Mabye, but that's the point- we don't own a favor- and if we do, we might think of it later- there is no point in paying them more than the ask for- with this attitude we'll never make beneficial trade, BUT, you can say that the GoW earned itself several points and we should consider this in the future.

	12-01-2003 22:51									#22
	Remove this text

I got their minimap, they are way up north, although it seems they are sitting on a nice patch of grassland, with mountains to their SE.

Check our mailbox.

	14-01-2003 07:26									#23
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No news yet from LI. Either they're debating our proposal to the death, or they're seriously inefficient.


Dominae

	14-01-2003 21:01									#24
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I know that Trip isn't very keen on swapping minimaps. They might not have done so with anyone.

	14-01-2003 21:09									#25
	Suffering from ads?

Ah, ok. Are they very keen on answering diplomatic messages (i.e. PMs)?




Dominae

	14-01-2003 21:37									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

No Idea. Trip is in the chatroom often , if you need him.

	14-01-2003 22:18									#27
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I can see him there now. I'll go ask him, if noone objects.

	14-01-2003 22:22									#28
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Just make sure you're not being too obvious about your intentions...("Hey Trip, let's discuss minimaps trades NOW, ok?").




Dominae

	14-01-2003 22:35									#29
	Inflate your Upload Space

I just combined all minimaps we have, and cleaned the previous version. You should have received it by mail... otherwise it's also available on our e-mail.

Edit: MSS, you're inbox is overflowing

DeepO

	14-01-2003 22:47									#30
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He says that the poll ended last night, and he'll send a PM shortly.
Not right now though. AFAIK, ATM he's painting his garage door.