10-01-2003 18:22									#31
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As a matter of interest, in the US is it a crime to encourage someone else to commit a crime? (a la 'Shoot the bastard!')

If it is (which I hope it is!) wouldn't Americans regard this as a violation of their right to free speech?

	10-01-2003 18:39									#32
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1. It is. 2. Some do.

	10-01-2003 18:41									#33
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You're not arrested for the free speech, you are arrested for being an accomplice to murder. If you said it under your breath and the murderer didn't hear you, then you'd probably be acquitted.

It would probably have to be proven that your statement was partly and directly responsible for the murder, or that you otherwise conspired to commit the murder.

Just conjecture on my part though.

	10-01-2003 18:46									#34
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quote: Originally posted by HolyWarrior What do you expect after being pussywhipped by the holocaust extortionists the past 50 years?

"holocaust extortionists" WTF?

	10-01-2003 18:48									#35
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he means the jews, obviously.

	10-01-2003 18:58									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Al'Kimiya Hum So torturing a german would be asking him about his heritage over and over again.

You are even worse than the Spanish inquisition.

quote: The guy was, of course, acquitted.

	10-01-2003 19:02									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin Despite prior attempts and current socio-economic diplomatic efforts via the EU, Germany != Europe.

Unfortunately, at leats economically, that seems to be the case. And it's messing it up for us othe europeans. Schroeder is particularly pissing me off. TIME called Germany "the heartland of the EU" and that the heart is sick (as it is) and schroeder isn't doing crap to clean it up. Who voted for this two-faced ass? He only got in because he played the pacifist card and even now he's licking Bush's ass for apologies...

Role on the day when we get a proper constituition in the EU and one nations stupid decisions won't drag down the rest (because they won't be able to make stupid decisions, that should happen in brussels).


ANYWAY, back to the freedom of speech and accessory to murder topic.

"Who shall rid me of this meddlesome priest?!"

The cultural and classically educated at 'poly should know what I'm talking about.

	10-01-2003 19:02									#38
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quote: Despite prior attempts and current socio-economic diplomatic efforts via the EU, Germany != Europe.

The Germans aren't the only ones who place these types of limits on free speech. The French have done the same thing in the past regarding Nazi paraphenalia and other European states have similar laws on the books.

	10-01-2003 19:08									#39
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good

	10-01-2003 19:11									#40
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i can sort of understand why germany does it, but it seems to be an unnecessary restriction on free speech, especially in other european states.

	10-01-2003 19:14									#41
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bad

freedom of speech shouldn't be confined, and by hiding these evils know one will learn from them and drive the evil underground. Only by exposing them to daylight can we learn to be prepared to fight them off and counter.

EDIT: oops! I think I just started a huge ranting debate! Sorry Settler...

	10-01-2003 19:16									#42
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quote: And Europeans still have the audacity to call the US a police state? ****ing hypocrites...

Nah man Europe is nowhere near the US as a police state
Besides, Germany isn't Europe, it's only the European economically most important state but that's it.

quote: TIME called Germany "the heartland of the EU"

I don't give a rats ass what Time thinks, it's not because Time says Germany is the heart of Europe that it actually is the heart of Europe, Germany doesn't control Europe alone, not at all really!

quote: He only got in because he played the pacifist card and even now he's licking Bush's ass for apologies...

Well apparently Schröder was the only one who strongly opposed warmonger Bush in his attempts for a war, unfortunately he was alone so he couldn't go on with his opposition, and that's why afterwards Bush controlled Schröder like a little schoolboy... I think that illustrates the power of Germany, it might be very important, but still if it doesn't get support from the rest, it is powerless against the US..

Besides, the only reason why Russia and France were being annoyed with this war is because their oil companies have contracts in iraq, and the US or British oil company haven't! Bush can't get his preciousss in Iraq...

So basically these countries only have oil concerns, the rest doesn't matter for them...

	10-01-2003 19:20									#43
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney he means the jews, obviously.

It was a rhetorical question. I'm trying to get a response so that I can decide whether it was just a asinine statement or he's a nazi.

	10-01-2003 19:28									#44
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You know, those two don't really contradict each other.

	10-01-2003 19:34									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Despite prior attempts and current socio-economic diplomatic efforts via the EU, Germany != Europe. The Germans aren't the only ones who place these types of limits on free speech. The French have done the same thing in the past regarding Nazi paraphenalia and other European states have similar laws on the books.

You are still generalising.

	10-01-2003 20:01									#46
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quote: You are still generalising.

So?

	10-01-2003 20:03									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus I don't give a rats ass what Time thinks, it's not because Time says Germany is the heart of Europe that it actually is the heart of Europe, Germany doesn't control Europe alone, not at all really!

Yes, well I agree with you there. Only economically is germany a main focus of europe, and thankfully not any other way. But still, economy does drive europe and america seems to see the economic powerhouses as the political leaders. Thats why germany's reputation outside europe concerns other europeans.

TIME has been annoying me in the past few years by getting dumbed down and very pro-rebuplican. I've been getting Newsweek recently because they are a tad better, but even that nowadays.... economist next...

quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Well apparently Schröder was the only one who strongly opposed warmonger Bush in his attempts for a war, unfortunately he was alone so he couldn't go on with his opposition, and that's why afterwards Bush controlled Schröder like a little schoolboy... I think that illustrates the power of Germany, it might be very important, but still if it doesn't get support from the rest, it is powerless against the US..

I don't beleive Schroder personally gives a wienerschnitzle about whether America goes warmangoering or not. He's just riding the populist's agenda. The only reason he spoke up against USA was because that would win him the lelection. It's pathetic how the electorate are swung on single-issue platforms. Don't they know there's more to a government than the one issue at hand? If he really was serious he would have fulfilled his campaign message by siding with the russians and french. But, no, he immediatly goes to whipe Bush's crack. I thought Blair was ass-kissing, but this guy....


And about the oil, yeah, it's a real shame. The faster we get non-oil dependant energy techs, the better off we'll be politically.

	10-01-2003 21:21									#48
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"He's just riding the populist's agenda."

The opposition's view was barely different. May have tipped a narrow election, but not more. And he's still annoying the Bushies, about the only consistency Schröder managed....

	10-01-2003 21:36									#49
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I'm glad we don't have that problem. There is one minister who wants to have gestapo though, but he is from Turku, you know the place where they solve unemployment by making them to be speed bumpers.
Fortunately we still have freedom of speech and the most free press in the world (Wohoo!).
I just came here to say that IF Germany is the heart of EU, then we are the balls, go ahead and look the euro coins.

	10-01-2003 21:39									#50
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Hell, I used to post at Telepolis too, and partially things worse than H. Voss. Not about 9/11, but about the US government being a bunch of warmongering hypocrites. This seems to be legal, at least nobody has complained yet. Anyway, if I suddenly disappear, you know where I am .

	10-01-2003 21:47									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: You are still generalising. So?

Do you really need an explanation of what is wrong with generalisations?

	10-01-2003 23:25									#52
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Every generalisation is false. Even this one

	11-01-2003 01:13									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten And Europeans still have the audacity to call the US a police state? ****ing hypocrites...

Now then Drake, could you please explain how the US' status as a police state changes whenever a German man gets prosecuted for a stupid reason. I'm really, really interested in your reasoning.

Otherwise I might just think that is the most idiotic argument ever, or that you are a worthless troll.

	11-01-2003 01:25									#54
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"
Sounds Facist to me."

Are you calling me facist? Reread my post, I said I disagree with this(refering to arresting the man).

	11-01-2003 02:39									#55
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Yes, I've never understood how anti-nazi/anti-neonazi speech laws could perpetuate themselves in a free society. Does anybody know of other countries in Europe besides France and Germany where they have these laws?

	11-01-2003 03:01									#56
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quote: Originally posted by SpencerH It was a rhetorical question. I'm trying to get a response so that I can decide whether it was just a asinine statement or he's a nazi.

Neither. Never heard of Norman Finkelstein? Do you think he´s a Nazi?
http://serendipity.magnet.ch/more/finkel.html

Quote: 'But Finkelstein makes clear that the Holocaust Industry is not about making sure that Nazi depravity is not forgotten — it is about extorting huge sums of money from Switzerland, Germany and any other country which can be tarred with the Nazi brush.'

	11-01-2003 03:02									#57
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I believe we can say whatever we want, as long as it's not trying to make someone commit a crime, or 'hate speech', as in trying to agitate people, attack some ethnicities. But it's pretty free, I can go out and shout whatever I want, to pretty much who ever I want to.
I think it's working very good. If I was a skinhead or something, I could go out and wear my insginias and all, shout what ever I want to as long as I'm not attacking anyone personally.
I've never heard of any arrests etc in here.

	13-01-2003 04:30									#58
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While I don't agree that generalizations are always false, as some of you seem to think, it turns out I wasn't generalizing in the slightest. The Council of Europe adopted a measure that would criminalize Internet hate speech late last year. The Council of Europe speaks for "Europeans", doesn't it?

My "****ing hypocrites" statement still stands...

	13-01-2003 07:48									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh As a matter of interest, in the US is it a crime to encourage someone else to commit a crime?

Only if there is present capability and imediate risk that the crime will occur. I the person being dncourgage is in proximity to the proposed victim with a real capacity to kill yes. I the prospes victim is distant, no.

	13-01-2003 09:48									#60
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Tribbie's still here? I'd have thought you guys would have chased him away by now you pansies.