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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:24
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Assume that the major powers all began to "expand" by adding states to a larger "co-prosperity" union. In other words, what if the US, Russia, China and Japan all began to add states to their own co-prosperity union on a voluntary basis just as the the European Union has been expanding by the voluntary association of new states into its Union. Who would be the most successful in expanding their "empires" by voluntary association?
Viewed in this light, I think Albert Speer would argue that it would be easier for United States to add states because it is multiethnic to begin with. He would further argue that China and Japan would not be able to expand (without force) because no one could expect to become a full fledged Chinese or Japanese citizen without having been born Chinese or Japanese.
I think the European Union has a good track record on expansion. However, they recently turned down Turkey. Does this indicate that the Europeans do not want to be associated with non-Christian cultures?
Russia, in contrast, successfully shared an empire with the peoples of Central Asia who were not born Russian and who were not Christian. But of course, the Russian empire was not built voluntarily.
Last edited by Ned on 09-01-2003 at 06:44
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Agathon
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Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:24
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I suggest that anyone wanting to comment on this thread download and read the UN Human Development Report. I think that the report is excessively generous to the United States and I would not live there if I could avoid it.
The United States is a lousy place to live because it doesn't have:
(1) A free press. Of course people say it has a free press; but you try living somewhere like New Zealand, where I come from and you will be amazed at the difference. *Surprisingly, I have been very critical of the NZ press considering that the UN ranks it as one of the World's freest - twice as free as the US).
(2) A functioning democracy. Money and a ridiculously arcane electoral system has polluted American democracy to the point where half of you don't vote and the two main political parties push basically the same economic policy with cosmetic differences on social policy. Even when there is an election, it is rife with fraud and corruption unbecoming a civilised state, the man who wins doesn't win, and the so called guardians of the law expose themselves as partisan anti-democrats.
(3) A welfare state. The reason that Norway, Sweden, Canada, et al. do so well in these reports is that they have a welfare state. Most sensible statesmen realised some time ago that unrestrained markets work only slightly less badly as absolute central planning. Health care is a good example - Americans spend about twice what Canadians do on Health care and get about half of what Canadians get. In what other civilised country do the elderly have to make regular trips abroad to be able to afford life saving drugs? Perhaps if you didn't spend all your money on the ridiculously large military budget there would be room for all these things.
More to the point: in New Zealand I have never seen a homeless person. There are a reputedly a few who live in Auckland and smattering elsewhere, but I have never seen one (Hard to believe, eh?). Most New Zealanders who have never been overseas are shocked on their first trip to discover that there is such a thing as homelessness. In the US homelessness and vagrancy is a virtual pandemic.
(4) A realistic perspective on patriotism. It is all very well to love your country: but American patriotism reaches fascist proportions. You know the way you guys feel about North Korean political pageantry - well when we look at you guys that's how we feel. In my country, it was once suggested that all schoolchildren should stand at attention once per day whilst our flag was raised and our anthem was played. There was massive opposition - this is the sort of thing fascist regimes do - besides all the children would have sung the rude words to the anthem (which everyone knows).
The United States is a lousy place to live because it has:
(1) Slaves: well, illegal workers aren't technically slaves, but they don't enjoy any of the rights of citizens and are basically tolerated as an underclass. Forced labourers in prison however are slaves - there is just no other way of looking at it.
(2) Religious lunatics with political clout. In my country the religious party get less votes than the legalise pot people. In the US there are serious debates about whether to teach evolution in schools. And these are the people that complain about Islamic fundamentalists! I could go on...
(3) Appalling rates of violent crime and poverty.
(4) An idiotic lottery system in which a few citizens win millions of dollar while others pay exorbitant ticket prices - it's icalled "suing".
(5) A President who can't read properly and didn't know where most the world's geostrategically important countries were before he was elected. He's now planning to bomb some of them.
(6) A war on black people (called the "war on drugs" - wink wink).
(7) Dull and silly sports that no one else in the world plays and an effeminate version of football played in full body armour (ever played Rugby League? - a man's game).
Oh I could go on all day.. but that's enough.
Why all this? Well because those of us used to civilised societies don't want primitive barbarians like you lot telling us what to do.
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Grrr
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of Hamilton, New-Zealand.
Dec 2000
time: 18:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
I suggest that anyone wanting to comment on this thread download and read the UN Human Development Report. I think that the report is excessively generous to the United States and I would not live there if I could avoid it.
The United States is a lousy place to live because it doesn't have:
(1) A free press. Of course people say it has a free press; but you try living somewhere like New Zealand, where I come from and you will be amazed at the difference. *Surprisingly, I have been very critical of the NZ press considering that the UN ranks it as one of the World's freest - twice as free as the US).
(2) A functioning democracy. Money and a ridiculously arcane electoral system has polluted American democracy to the point where half of you don't vote and the two main political parties push basically the same economic policy with cosmetic differences on social policy. Even when there is an election, it is rife with fraud and corruption unbecoming a civilised state, the man who wins doesn't win, and the so called guardians of the law expose themselves as partisan anti-democrats.
(3) A welfare state. The reason that Norway, Sweden, Canada, et al. do so well in these reports is that they have a welfare state. Most sensible statesmen realised some time ago that unrestrained markets work only slightly less badly as absolute central planning. Health care is a good example - Americans spend about twice what Canadians do on Health care and get about half of what Canadians get. In what other civilised country do the elderly have to make regular trips abroad to be able to afford life saving drugs? Perhaps if you didn't spend all your money on the ridiculously large military budget there would be room for all these things.
More to the point: in New Zealand I have never seen a homeless person. There are a reputedly a few who live in Auckland and smattering elsewhere, but I have never seen one (Hard to believe, eh?). Most New Zealanders who have never been overseas are shocked on their first trip to discover that there is such a thing as homelessness. In the US homelessness and vagrancy is a virtual pandemic.
(4) A realistic perspective on patriotism. It is all very well to love your country: but American patriotism reaches fascist proportions. You know the way you guys feel about North Korean political pageantry - well when we look at you guys that's how we feel. In my country, it was once suggested that all schoolchildren should stand at attention once per day whilst our flag was raised and our anthem was played. There was massive opposition - this is the sort of thing fascist regimes do - besides all the children would have sung the rude words to the anthem (which everyone knows).
The United States is a lousy place to live because it has:
(1) Slaves: well, illegal workers aren't technically slaves, but they don't enjoy any of the rights of citizens and are basically tolerated as an underclass. Forced labourers in prison however are slaves - there is just no other way of looking at it.
(2) Religious lunatics with political clout. In my country the religious party get less votes than the legalise pot people. In the US there are serious debates about whether to teach evolution in schools. And these are the people that complain about Islamic fundamentalists! I could go on...
(3) Appalling rates of violent crime and poverty.
(4) An idiotic lottery system in which a few citizens win millions of dollar while others pay exorbitant ticket prices - it's icalled "suing".
(5) A President who can't read properly and didn't know where most the world's geostrategically important countries were before he was elected. He's now planning to bomb some of them.
(6) A war on black people (called the "war on drugs" - wink wink).
(7) Dull and silly sports that no one else in the world plays and an effeminate version of football played in full body armour (ever played Rugby League? - a man's game).
Oh I could go on all day.. but that's enough.
Why all this? Well because those of us used to civilised societies don't want primitive barbarians like you lot telling us what to do. |
1) ... not to **** in our own nest ... but have you EVER seen the NZ press report on something worthwhile. International news is relagated to after the first ad-break on the 6 o'clock news ... and is often canned if there is important news (eg Rugby scandals).
2) ... Yep down with Christian Heritage ...
... And also the fact that we have seven politcal parties bringing many values to our government.
3) ... you've obviously never walked down Cuba St in Wellington or Karangahape Rd in Auckland. Plenty there ... but most do it voluntarily ... if they didn't spend all their money on booze and hookers it'd be a lot better.
4) ... Yeah. But I look at america like that.
...
But we do have Winston Peters ... he should be deported to America ... would raise the average IQ of both countries.
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:24
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quote:
I like the Japanese too. But I don't think I would ever be fully accepted into their society. |
My point EXACTLY... an ethnic state like Japan must never be imperialist because, for example, Manchurians would never be accepted into Japanese society. Any imperialism done by such an ethnic state will be racist.
The United States, however, being a multi-national state, if it does act imperialistically, would do so in a way where the citizens of the 'vassal' would be fully embraced as the Gauls and Egyptians and what not was embraced by the Romans
thanks
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:24
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Sava:
Once again...
Japanese act imperialistically in Korea... Koreans become second-class citizens of the Japanese Empire with no hope of being accepted into the ethnic state that is Japan.
US acts imperialistically in Korea. Koreans will be equals to Americans and be accepted into a multi-national state that has a history of accepting people of various ethnicities
Multi-national states are better... Achaemid Persia, Rome, Ottoman Empire...
thanks
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09-01-2003 04:40
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