08-01-2003 03:57									#1
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So, my main New Year's resolution is to look like van Diesel by year's end. Those of you who've seen me may laugh your asses off now.

Anyway, starting Jan 2, I've been excersizing and tracking my fat and calorie intake (though not dieting yet). While at the library, looking for a recipie for fresh tomato sauce (it turned out to be pretty good, except I put in a little too much salt and pepper), I came across a low-fat Italian cookbook. The book is written by a nutritionist and she makes that statement that the body needs 15 calories per pound per day to maintain itself.

My question, does this include fat weight as well? It seems to me that fat doesn't need as much energy to maintain itself, since it doesn't really do anything except store fat. My guess is that she means 15 calories per day per pound of lean body mass, which in my case would be about 160lbs. (I was a skinny boy before my metabolism betrayed me). The difference is almost 1500 calories a day.

BTW, I've lost 5.5 pounds in the last week, though I expect most of that is water weight.

	08-01-2003 04:02									#2
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One small point. It's "Vin Diesel".

Otherwise you'll look like a truck.....

	08-01-2003 05:14									#3
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I reckon it'd mean non-fatty tissue (me 200lbs 5% bodyfat - recommended intake about 2900 kcal, sounds about right).

Keep in mind that with heavy exercise you would need a lot more to support the muscle growth and repair.

As a fairly high level rower, I quite often hit 4000-4500 kcal a day on heavy training weeks. You can only do this if you train it off though otherwise you turn to Homer Simpson in weeks.

	08-01-2003 05:43									#4
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good luck. I started something simillar in early november, and lost 20 pounds before break and looked decent (definition and all), put 5 pounds back on at home (christmas and new years ) but am back on track.

small meals, 20-30 minutes of moderate exercise semi-daily, and healthy choices will have you halfway to your goal by April...at which point you'll have to up the ante on your exercise if you want to look like Vin Diesel

	08-01-2003 05:46									#5
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if you start your day off with a high fiber breakfast (cereal nuts and peanutbutter, perhaps) it will help you lose weight and stay full until midday, when you can have a light snack which'll keep you going until dinner (if you eat around 6:00-6:30), then if you get hungry late (though generally it is not recommended to eat too late) you can have another light snack.

	08-01-2003 05:49									#6
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The only way to loose weight, is to loose it very slowly.
To quikly, and your body will go in 'save up for later' mode.
After you stop dieting every pound will come back fast, if you havn't trained/given time for your body to adjust itself to your new lifestyle !!!

Don't eat less(at least not at first), just moderate, look at what you're eating and cut down on a few things, yeah, the obvious ones.

Don't mix certain food; a good example is meat and patatoes.

Drink loads of water, and hang on

	08-01-2003 06:10									#7
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something to ponder. This applies to me- and very likely won't apply to most people. I didn't eat that much. I gained weight slowly over 10 years. I thin it it is safe to say that I only exceeded my ideal calorie intake by a little. So what did I do? reduce my caloric intake.

I heard that caffeine hurts people with anxiety. So I was intending on cutting that out. I figured hell, if I'm going to do that, I might as well stop drinking soda all together. That I did.

When I was working I ate fast food for lunch everyday. Believe it or not, I'm kind of sick of the way fast food tastes. So I decided. Screw this. I'm cutting down on fast food. I still eat taco bell occasionally. And occasionally pizza.

I cut my lunch from two sandwhiches to one. I cut my breakfast from 4 waffles to 2.

And I because of my suspicians about the effects of french fries and chips I have cut them from my diet as well. There was a study that shows these may cause cancer- not proven yet.

Also because chocalate can cause my face to break out, I have cut that from my diet as well.

Another thing to take notice is flavour. Too many people think sweet is the only flavour. I have found I like sour things almost as much as sweet things. And they have less calories in general.

This appears to be working. I'm not losing weight fast, but I am losing weight.

Oh and I walk my dog, and do moderate excersizes with dumbells. I also use a stair stepper twice a week- that is all I can manage to do right now. I think it is enough. I can't be bothered to do it anymore than that.

	08-01-2003 06:16									#8
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Orange knows what he's talking about. Fibres is the key.

	08-01-2003 06:17									#9
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just don't eat that fiber near me

	08-01-2003 06:27									#10
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good job Dissident

	08-01-2003 06:29									#11
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cheg, if you want to look like vin diesel and you're not very fat to begin with, then you want to eat and have all the protein and all that. Not too much of course.. so your muscles develop better, than just loosing weight. Loosing weight can make your muscles smaller if only dieting and eating less. If you want to beef up, you should eat about 5 times a day (not full meals of course), time it correctly so your body maintains good level all the time. Few light meals and then few snacks. You should place the eatings with your training correctly, to get the best results.

Exercise is the key word naturally, running, swimming and gym is good combination. You should get a program for gym, running and swimming from professional, it's essential to do it right, and not just do.

You are 160lbs? You sound light weight.. you still want to loose weight? If you have some extra on you, then sure, but if you're 'normal', you might want to start eating more and training heavily.. that is if you want to look like vin diesel . Also, I remember that you're not a child anymore, so you need to train even harder, and keep in mind that there are lots of injuries waiting!
I didn't catch if you wanted to just loose weight and be tighter, or build up some muscles?

Well anyway, and it's not all bad, you can have one day off a week to eat something that's not healthy food, body needs more than salads, and it can be beneficial even when loosing weight. Just don't over do it..
Vin Diesel has a big upper body, so you really need to train hard and eat correctly, and maybe get some of those nutrition stuff, extra meal snacks or stuff like that, maybe creatin would be good. But then you really need to train, or you end up fat .

	08-01-2003 06:41									#12
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Also don't fall into what some people do. They eat like crazy for one day, and then won't eat at all for 2 days.. it's not good way to lose weight, in fact it doesn't even work. When you stop eating for few days, your body thinks it's tough times, and it storages fat instead of burning it.. and it burns (my english comes in a way) something else that you don't want to burn. So in fact you're in worse shape, and the fat is not gone.

Maybe the most important thing for modern people to do is to get their lives more steady and regular. Sleep the same hours, work the same hours, eat the same hours, train the same hours, so your body gets used to it, and it won't do any freaky stuff. Relaxing, dumping stress is good for your body, and increases the results of training. Leave coffee, soda, stuff that makes you anxious away. It's ok to have them every once in a while.. won't do damage.
Also if you start running, knee injures are looking for you if you haven't done it for a while, so don't run too much at first.. let your body get used to it. Same goes with all the training. If you train too much, it's again making your body go back instead going forward and to something better. I have found it best for me to do little sporting right in the morning for about 40 minutes, quite intensive, and then again in the afternoon for 1.5 hours.
In the morning I run or swim, afternoon something else like gym etc. I don't do this routine anymore, I did it when I was getting out of shape. Worked like charm! I called it 'the superhero workout' .

	08-01-2003 06:45									#13
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i think Che is well over 160...i think he meant 160 is his normal lean body weight (what'd he be if he wasn't heavy)

	08-01-2003 06:49									#14
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here I go again..

and remember to make things more permanent, and not just a thing for a month.. it works if you continue doing it! And don't worry if you don't lose fast, God's miracles are not usually in this business. First you might lose quite fast in fact, it's mostly water, and if you have some extra, you'll burn fat too, but then it slows down. This is the point where you must continue! Also, it doesn't show up fast, because your body tends to loose somewhere else first than the 'problem areas', making the belly, butt, what ever look even more bigger or worse.. but not any better. Fat burns pretty steadily from all over your body, not just the problem areas, so always keep it in mind, the problem areas will get better, just need to continue.

And no, I wouldn't laugh at you. I was always in very good shape, then I started drinking beer, eating like horse, and stopped training. I got in bad shape, and when I started working out again with determination, it didn't even take that long, and got me in even better shape. So everything is possible. Actually I'm eating like a horse again, and not training . I should continue fast, or I'll end up like that michelin dude again.

	08-01-2003 06:51									#15
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orange, ah ok ! I thought he was 160 now, so that's why I talked about beefing up .

	08-01-2003 07:04									#16
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Also don't fall into any of those miracle pills or whatever they have on commercials.. Spend more than you take (calories) and the weight will drop. Simple as that!
Some people give it a week or two and then be disappointed and quit.. give it a few months at least, you'll get results! It's all in your mind .
If you start working out, try to make it fun, it's not supposed to be hell... it's supposed to be fun, and make you feel good, not bad and disappointed.

It's very easy, there aren't any shortcuts, but make it fun for yourself and more permanent. And don't be too hard on yourself if you slack few times.. it won't do big damage.

If you want to have miracle pills whatever, the only one that works is amphetamine, and I think it's illegal substance . Other than that, there are no other ways, they're all lies..

edit: and some final words.. mirror is more reliable than scale. You just need to get past the hard part, which is few weeks-month from starting.. keep doing it.
It doesn't matter how you look anyway, it matters how you feel, and working out and keeping good diet makes you feel good, so don't be too hard on yourself. Besides, it's your body, you should always take good care of it!
That's it, I didn't mean to sound patrionating or anything, I just wanted to say that it's very possible, you just need to believe in it and keep working out correctly. It's simple math, and it works for 99% of people.

Last edited by Pekka on 08-01-2003 at 07:15

	08-01-2003 07:26									#17
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The only thing that works is controling one's diet and excericise. I starting excersizing a week ago. My daily workout goal is to burn 288 calories, which is 1.2 ounces of fat or one pound of fat every two weeks. It takes about 40 minutes of bike riding.

My concern is this 15 calories per pound thing. At 262.2 pounds, that's 3933 calories daily to maintain, and that just doesn't sound right. Hell, I don't think I could eat that much in a day (it's like four double whoppers w/ cheese). At 160 lbs of lean mass, i.e., the rest of me minus the 100 lbs of fat, I should need 2400 calories a day. Then you have to make adjustments for age and whatnot, the chart had me at 2000-2400 calories a day.

Since I started tracking my calorie intake, I'm averaging about 2100 a day, with extremes of 1180 and 2810 (I woulda come under the wire, but orange juice has 110 calories and I had about five glasses worth, plus three root beers--1030 calories drinking alone --it sneaks up on you).

At www.foodcount.com a nutritionist mentioned you have to have a deficit of 3500 calories a week in order to lose one pound (you can make the deficit by excercise or dieting) a week. That's five hundred calories a day. So that means I only need to knock 212 calories off my diet daily . . . now if I could just figure out my actual target caloric intake.

BTW, there are over-the-counter amphetamines, such as Sudaphed, but I don't like the way it makes my heart race.

	08-01-2003 08:15									#18
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personally I don't think you need any health pills or anything like that...

biking is a good start. If you get to a point where you think you can do it, try running, or at first alternating runs with your biking, and then switch to running. Running is the best calorie burner there is, and when you get to a point where you pleateu, you'll need the extra calorie burn to maintain your success.

I would also add some basic stretches and exercises, such as crunches and pushups. Nothing too major now, but some stuff to limber you up and start you on a path that will allow you to, in the future, stretch well and develop abdominal and upper body chest and arm strength.

	08-01-2003 08:17									#19
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3933 calories is absurd. I'd say, for your height and weight (what, 6'0 260?) 2000-2300 sounds about right. Especially if you're exercising...but break it up into smaller meals and more of them, and don't fill it with empty calories (beer, sodas, etc.)

Also, drink a good amount of water. If you don't normally do this, build up to 6-8 glasses a day gradually. Incorporate lean meats into your last meal to help burn calories at night, when your metabolism normally drops.

	08-01-2003 08:24									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

When I'm finished biking, I stretch all the major muscle groups in my legs. That adds another 8 minutes of excercise. I figure after about a month I'll change to using the treadmill or stair master or something like that. Right now, I'm simply too out of shape for my joints to take that kind of punishment.

Water's good, water's yummy, water's delicious. Just thinking about it makes me want some right now. I don't drink soda all that often, but yesterday I just screamed out for sugar (went on a long bike ride without eating breakfast, then hit the grocery store )

	08-01-2003 09:01									#21
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natural. Once again, good luck It's not always easy. Took me quite a few tries before I got something I liked enough to stick with.

	08-01-2003 10:22									#22
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Pushups!

...and a one and a two and three and four...

	08-01-2003 10:34									#23
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nice one

	08-01-2003 10:47									#24
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I should start exercising...

	08-01-2003 10:53									#25
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Dieting???? Whatever.. eat and eat but remember that eating junk will make you fat!!! So eat fruit and veggies till your hearts content but leave Fast Foodo out of it!!!

Eat Breakfast that will get yyou metabolism going and that is the most important meal then eat whatever you want..get your energy flowing and be active..as long as you eat and move you will lose weight.. try it!!!\\I lost 40 pounds eating .. CHIPS AND SALSA GUYS!!! Salsa has so many fat burners in it..limes..onions... garlic..incorporate that in your meals you will lose weight!!!!!!

	08-01-2003 11:09									#26
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You should eat most for breakfast and leasf for dinner. Some good exercise you can do is jumping jack or ropes. Do any of that for 20 minutes a day, and you probably don't even need to go on a diet.

	08-01-2003 12:20									#27
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Chegitz:

Well, health concerns have forced me to start watching more what I eat and how much. With that in mind, I do the following on a daily basis, and it helped me lose 7 pounds 3 1/2 weeks (at least according to the doctor's office visit I had on Dec. 20):

1. I bought a Schwinn Airdyne Evolution stationary bike and use it twice a day for 15 minutes apiece (30 minutes total), five days a week. The remaining two days a week I do it once a day. Anyway, this burns an average of 400 total calories per day when I do it twice a day. 400 calories out the window with only a 30 minute investment isn't bad, IMHO.

2. I have started counting carbohydrates, which is what supplies your body with energy. 15 grams of carbohydrates is equal to "1 carb," and the average diet isn't supposed to have more than 24 carbs a day (I happen to be on 21 right now).

3. Watch your meat intake. I have a guideline of 8 ounces a day, although I do go over that a few times a week (eating out twice a week is my "treat," so to speak).

4. Make sure your fat intake isn't more than 60 to 85 grams a day, with saturated fat staying around 20 grams or so.

5. Keep your chin up. This stuff can take up to a year, IMHO, to fully kick in and benefit your body, particularly if you haven't been much into exercise prior to getting a wake-up call.

6. Go to a doctor's office and get a physical NOW. Only then will you know what your limitations are (plus you avoid finding out the hard way).

Best of luck, Chegitz.

Gatekeeper

	08-01-2003 16:27									#28
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I think the two best aerobic exercise machines are:

1/ Those elliptical crosstrainers that sort of emulate the movement of cross country skiing. They get me up to a sweat in less than 3 minutes and put next to no pressure on your joints.

2/ What us in the rowings biz like to call ergos, which are the stationary rowing machines. Rowing exercises just about every muscle in your body (if you do it right), bar possibly your triceps and pecs. It is ridiculous how fit you get from rowing. I came from university level basketball and changed to uni rowing and my fitness went thru the roof (running for 2hrs? No problem; increase of max weights by 20%? No problem).

Most gyms should have these.

	08-01-2003 16:52									#29
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara My concern is this 15 calories per pound thing. At 262.2 pounds, that's 3933 calories daily to maintain, and that just doesn't sound right. Hell, I don't think I could eat that much in a day (it's like four double whoppers w/ cheese). At 160 lbs of lean mass, i.e., the rest of me minus the 100 lbs of fat, I should need 2400 calories a day. Then you have to make adjustments for age and whatnot, the chart had me at 2000-2400 calories a day.... At www.foodcount.com a nutritionist mentioned you have to have a deficit of 3500 calories a week in order to lose one pound (you can make the deficit by excercise or dieting) a week. ...

From my dieting experience:

I read the "7000 calories to lose a kilo of fat" too. As for your basic burn rate: It's just a wild guess anyway. I started at 93 kg and went to 75 kg. I got the impression from continuing calory counting that my burn rate had decreased, but that may have been a consequence of dieting, not of the weight loss.

Judging from my calory intake+weight loss, my burn rate seemed to be about 2000 calories at 78 kg/~170 pds. The rate increases when you're heavier, might just not be linear.

I'd say take the 7000 calories=1 kg and experiment. Take your average weight over 5 days, let 2 weeks pass inbetween, and from your intake+weight loss you should roughly get your number. At 260 pds I'd guesstimate something 2500-3000 without exercising.

"So that means I only need to knock 212 calories off my diet daily . . ."

That didn't work for me. I had to create a deficit of about 1000 calories daily to get an effect. Maybe it was inaccuracy of my assumptions, maybe my body adjusted to a few 100 deficit... I lost 1 kg per week pretty regularly.

Another thing: Seperating foodstuffs or reducing fat had no effect that I noticed. Although if you limit yourself to 1000 calories as I did, you will look for more "saturating" foods (fiber instead of fat etc) automatically.

	08-01-2003 17:29									#30
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You know, a massive, life threatening infection is often a great way to lose weight. My former manager's cousin lost over 100 lbs fighting off a bad case of mono.

A brief touch of food poisoning (in which during the middle of summer, 30 degree C heat, I was under six duvets with a hot water bottle and still shivering from the cold) and old sweaters got a new lease on life!