08-01-2003 04:50									#1
	MOO3 Demo Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

If the single player game is finished, i'm wondering why they don't put out a limited SP demo for us to play around with while they finish the game.

Say, like a 100 turn max. demo like SMAC did .

	08-01-2003 05:14									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Because they would then need to devote a number of staff to actually producing a crippled version of the game. They would then also need to devote a number of staff to supporting the demo, helping people install it, fix bugs, troubleshooting, etc.

	08-01-2003 05:51									#3
	Re: MOO3 Demo Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by vee4473 Say, like a 100 turn max. demo like SMAC did .

Wasn't there an exploit that allowed you to play past the limit? I seem to remember something about that.

Asmodean

	08-01-2003 05:58									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Because they would then need to devote a number of staff to actually producing a crippled version of the game. They would then also need to devote a number of staff to supporting the demo, helping people install it, fix bugs, troubleshooting, etc.

I said IF the single player is finished. Which means it wouldn't be crippled.

And no demo is really supported..it is what it is. it's a demo.

And if SP is finished, then they should have no problem releasing a SP demo, unless they admit that they don't have the resources to produce it, which goes back to my other post.

Most other game companies produce demos understanding the importance of them. What do they know that IG doesn't?

Or does it indicate that there is a deeper problem with the game that they aren't talking about?

	08-01-2003 05:59									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

A demo would have been the smart thing for them to do, then no one would have had any reason to complain about anything.

Well, they would have found something to complain about...but you get the point.

	08-01-2003 06:06									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

They'd also need to set about making it appeal to consumers. With Moo3 they have the duration of the game to fully immerse the player, draw them in and try and create that one-more-turn feel.
In a 100-turn or so demo this isn't necessarily quite as easy to achieve, and if they didn't it might actually put people off who otherwise might've bought, played and enjoyed it.
Then, as above, they would need people to support it and debug it, not to mention plenty of bandwidth for the thousands of downloads...

Not worth it IMO, especially if they're still in the debugging phase.

	08-01-2003 06:16									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Even though the single player is supposed to be flawless, I agree that a demo is not in order.

That being said, however, they could have released something such as say, a single combat simulation. Maybe something that would simulate a battle or a few. Defend a planet, attack a planet, fight with an ally against an enemy fleet. Doesn't need to be any other game attached.

This would let those wary about the RTS of combat stop sweating.

Again, just an idea.

(Oh and it would take one software engineer less than a day to make it, so don't cry foul for that!)

	08-01-2003 06:17									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

amazing, why aren't the other companies worried about bandwith or support?

i still don't know anyone who expects a FREE demo to be supported.

If the game is good, the "one more turn" thing will be there, because just as you are about to get the new tech or unit or launch an attack on that colony, the game ends and, bam you want to buy it.

I can't believe I found people in favor of no demo. amazing.

Only game companies with crappy games, or games that need MUCH work, are afraid of demos.

	08-01-2003 06:20									#9
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by ravagon They'd also need to set about making it appeal to consumers. With Moo3 they have the duration of the game to fully immerse the player, draw them in and try and create that one-more-turn feel. In a 100-turn or so demo this isn't necessarily quite as easy to achieve, and if they didn't it might actually put people off who otherwise might've bought, played and enjoyed it. Then, as above, they would need people to support it and debug it, not to mention plenty of bandwidth for the thousands of downloads... Not worth it IMO, especially if they're still in the debugging phase.

And doing nothing makes it appealling to consumers?

If any game is near completion, and it's a good game, a demo is in order. period.

	08-01-2003 06:22									#10
	Tired of ads?

not to mention that SMAC did a DAMN good job of hooking me with 100 turns.

	08-01-2003 06:30									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Hmmm.
Well I happen to love playing smac too. And that was one of the few demos I've tried.
I was waiting for it to come out over here and just dl'd and tried the thing out of boredom. Didn't really think much of it quite frankly. It just didn't immerse me as much as civ/civ2 did.
That said though, I'd heard good things about it and knew at the time not to expect too much from demo's, hence I picked it up as soon as it was here and have never regretted it since.

To each their own...

	08-01-2003 06:33									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

The demo for smac is the same as the full game, just limited. How can you like smac and say the demo wasn't immersive?

if the game immerses you the game demo of smac does as well I think.


It's not like the full game of smac was any different than the demo in gameoplay.

	08-01-2003 07:29									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Consider though, what you can't actually do and what you don't see in those hundred odd turns:-

- Few Special project(s) movies.
- Few of the terraforming options.
- No combining specials in unit building (I've forgotten the name of the tech that lets you put a second into your units). Most of the vehicle chassis classes won't be seen either.
- No Air and little in the way of sea-borne units.
- No Space-based nessus mines, defense pods, etc.
- No Wondrous planetbuster explosions.
- Not much in the way of activity on Planets part.

The demo wasn't actually bad or anysuch but it just didn't give me much of an idea as to what the final game (without a limited-duration) would be like...

Now if they'd maybe had some sort of advanced start campaign - playing from y2150 or so, for the hundred turns thereafter, rather than just the first hundred of the game, it might've been different.
That, however would've required more time/effort on Firaxis' part - time/effort well spent on the final product.

	08-01-2003 08:14									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hey that's an idea... Moo3 may be able to gain from something like Civ's wonders. At least minor wonders which have empire wide results.

	08-01-2003 08:33									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by ravagon Consider though, what you can't actually do and what you don't see in those hundred odd turns:- - Few Special project(s) movies. - Few of the terraforming options. - No combining specials in unit building (I've forgotten the name of the tech that lets you put a second into your units). Most of the vehicle chassis classes won't be seen either. - No Air and little in the way of sea-borne units. - No Space-based nessus mines, defense pods, etc. - No Wondrous planetbuster explosions. - Not much in the way of activity on Planets part. The demo wasn't actually bad or anysuch but it just didn't give me much of an idea as to what the final game (without a limited-duration) would be like... Now if they'd maybe had some sort of advanced start campaign - playing from y2150 or so, for the hundred turns thereafter, rather than just the first hundred of the game, it might've been different. That, however would've required more time/effort on Firaxis' part - time/effort well spent on the final product.

the smac demo was great.

it was only meant to give a taste of game play, as all demos are only meant to do. If it gave up all you mentioned it would be the whole game, not a demo.

And all demos tease you as to what the full version contains. They give you a taste and at the end tell you what to expect from the retail version.



for pete's sake.

	08-01-2003 08:37									#16
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

No. No demo please. Finish the fricking game instead.

	08-01-2003 08:38									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

the notion that making a demo in some way takes resources away from completing the whole project is odd.

the idea of a demo is to release it when the game is near completion... the game is almost done, so you can spare resources to make a demo!

this whole argument is ridiculous. to argue against a demo?????????
sorry i brought it up.

so many companies make demos for very complex and great games with no problem. To say IG just can't swing it is absolutely ridiculous.

ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR it speaks to their incompetence as a game company



someone close this thread



sorry i opened it

	08-01-2003 10:54									#18
	Re: Re: MOO3 Demo Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Asmodean Wasn't there an exploit that allowed you to play past the limit? I seem to remember something about that. Asmodean

I think you were able to edit Saves and set your turn-counter down.
Something which would be of limited use though, cos at one time in the demo you would run out of researchable technologies and Secret Projects.

As for a Demo of MOO3:

Depends on how many Staff-Members they could spare in their Regression-Testing.
If making a demo now means, that the Release of the game will be postponed by a few days, I would say, go for gold and make a demo afterwards (to attract those Gamers who wouldn“t buy the game as soon as it hits the shelves )

	08-01-2003 12:30									#19
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by vee4473 the notion that making a demo in some way takes resources away from completing the whole project is odd. the idea of a demo is to release it when the game is near completion... the game is almost done, so you can spare resources to make a demo! quote] OR they can work towards getting the game out as early as possible Less people working==longer time [quote] this whole argument is ridiculous. to argue against a demo?????????

i'd rather wait until i have the full copy in my hands before i start playing

quote: sorry i brought it up.

so are the rest of us

quote: ORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR it speaks to their incompetence as a game company

maybe you could do a better job?

quote: someone close this thread sorry i opened it

actually DELETE it, Mark.