08-01-2003 12:26									#1
	Turn 28 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have preset the no-brainers (IMHO), you're free to edit them:

Status:
- We possess 22 gold and are making 12 commerce per turn. Currently, we are researching nothing. Possible techs to research are:
- - Alphabet: 120 beakers
- - Mysticism: 96 beakers
- - Warrior Code: 72 beakers
- - Bronze Working: 64 beakers
- A trade deal of The Wheel to Vox Controli was offered last turn. Their answer is expected this turn.

Urgent questions:
- What to do, if Tim and Willy "disappear"?

Military:
- If Rodney moves 2 or 3, Grog moves 6, closing the bag. Otherwise Slash moves 8.
- Hack and Ouch shadow Tim and Willy, keeping S of them. See "Urgent questions".
- Crush?

Economy:
- Laborer in Hurricane to be switched back to fur forest.
- Granary in EotS ready, we switch it to Settler.
- Science slider to 100%
- Worker starts irrigating.
- Science to Alphabet unless Vox says no, in which case Bronze Working instead.

Diplomacy:
...

Your turn!

Last edited by nbarclay on 08-01-2003 at 12:51

	08-01-2003 12:49									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

Economic inputs updated. Explanation as follows:

Science to 100% ensures that regardless of changing circumstances (and we know there will be some changes in city sizes), we'll get our tech as early as possible.

Current sentiment seems to be that if Vox doesn't answer our trade proposal in time (and they do have it in hand now, by the way), we go for Alphabet in case Vox is interested in the deal later. If that sentiment changes, we can change the plan (but only until we take our turn; then we have a pretty big investment in sticking to our plan).

Nathan

Last edited by nbarclay on 08-01-2003 at 12:55

	08-01-2003 13:05									#3
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If Willy disappears, Ouch goes 4. If Tim disappears, Hack goes 6. Those moves block the only moves Vox can make that put them out of our sight without going backward.

	08-01-2003 14:32									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hmmm, I think it's not that easy. Tim could have went 7, and if we go 6 with Hack (we still don't see Tim behind the mountains) and Tim goes 2 next turn, he has basically broken through, because we can't block his success south anymore.

Willy is not an issue this turn.

	08-01-2003 15:01									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hack stays where he is ..
Tim wil move 1 though.

	08-01-2003 17:48									#6
	Remove this text

What can be said regarding diplomacy?
Just don't accept their reply unless it falls under the terms we agreed upon (WC for BW). All the rest is done outside the game (although we better keep it cooler for now- as said- we don't want to beg for Vox to listen to us).

	08-01-2003 21:03									#7
	Support Apolyton

Thanks zeit. May I ask you to edit your next decisions in the first post of the threads? Some time, when we have the next big event happening, the thread may again get very long and I may lack the time to read it completely, to dig for instructions. Think also of Meshelic, who might be forced to replace me shortly and needs instructions.

	08-01-2003 21:30									#8
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And think of Alva, who would find all information in one place when compiling his history thread

DeepO

	08-01-2003 21:56									#9
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The problem with Hack staying where he is if Tim disappears is that if Tim moves 6 and then 4, Tim can reach EotS before Hack does. One key part of our shadowing strategy was to keep between the other team and the goal so if Vox does decide to gamble on attacking a city with a warrior, they'll face two defenders. We would risk losing that.

Moving Hack 3 would put him in a position to directly intercept a 6-4 combination. If Tim doesn't show up again the next turn, Hack could then move 1 to intercept a possible 7-2 combination. That would intercept either of Vox's most likely escape maneuvers, and anything else would delay Vox long enough for Tim to fall back and protect the Eye (and hopefully generate an intercept later).

Nathan

	08-01-2003 22:06									#10
	Put an end to popups!

Question: What do we do if Vox offers to trade Bronze Working for The Wheel in-game but we haven't heard a response to the full two-stage trade proposal? Unless ManicStarSeed is available to ask him, we might not have a quick way of confirming whether or not he was sent a response to our proposal.

My inclination, as much as I dislike the idea, would be to hold up the game long enough to ask Vox their intentions and make it clear that we aren't interested in the first stage without the second because trading a more expensive tech for a less expensive one when they have contact with someone else and we don't would give them too much of an advantage. (We would, of course, express our apologies if they've sent a response to ManicStarSeed and some minor functionary has gone against our orders and delayed their emissary from delivering his message.)

Nathan

	08-01-2003 23:07									#11
	Re: Turn 28 Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Military: - Crush?

Crush should move 8 in in any case, right ?

(ofcourse except for barbarian appearances, which will propably not happen, barbarians are propably off, since we havent seen 'em already)

	08-01-2003 23:52									#12
	Suffering from ads?

Vox Controli just responded. They're planning a discussion for "this evening" to address our messages (I'm not sure what time zone), so let's give them a chance to decide before we take our turn.

	09-01-2003 00:09									#13
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They have the savegame right now. According to the Saved Game Thread, "they have to discuss some issues before they send the turn". Good for us. I'm off, watching TV, but I take my cellular with me, in case the turn arrives.

	09-01-2003 01:23									#14
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I drafted a proposed response to Vox Controli to try to smooth over ruffled feathers, and will send it when Sir Ralph gives the okay or I otherwise feel an adequate consensus to do so (assuming people like it).

Nathan

	09-01-2003 01:36									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph They have the savegame right now. According to the Saved Game Thread, "they have to discuss some issues before they send the turn". Good for us. I'm off, watching TV, but I take my cellular with me, in case the turn arrives.

You have email on your cellular?

I need to talk to my cell phone company....

	09-01-2003 01:51									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yes I can send and receive email with my cell phone, although I very seldom do it. Additionally, my email provider sends me a notification on my phone, when I get a mail. Of course, I use this only with a spamsafe account.

	09-01-2003 02:22									#17
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Message sent to Vox.

	09-01-2003 02:40									#18
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Message read by Jon Miller about 20 minutes ago, so they should be able to take it into consideration in making their decisions.

Edit: more like 15 minutes. Apolyton time and my watch don't quite agree.

Nathan

	09-01-2003 02:51									#19
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Should be interesting....

Can't wait to see their response

	09-01-2003 03:04									#20
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quote: Eli Turn received. We need to discuss some issues before playing it.

They have the save and well...

Good idea SR to make that offer ingame..

	09-01-2003 03:24									#21
	Got spare money?

Damn, i have to go to bed pretty soon, i wish i could stay until we get an answer- i'm anxious to see if the impression i got on Vox the moment we met them (and i remember me pushing for contacting the other teams quickly to find who's behind them, as well as stating that the next big thing between us will probably be war, not tech trade) is true, or that (hopefully) i'm wrong, and they are willing to trade.

	09-01-2003 04:50									#22
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Vox sent the turn. Did anyone receive an answer to our diplomatic notes?

	09-01-2003 04:52									#23
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I didn't .

I guess, if they have sent a replay, they will only have sent it to Nathan.

	09-01-2003 05:10									#24
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Last time, BetaHound sent the reply to both ManicStarSeed and me, so I'm guessing he'll do the same again. But BetaHound hasn't been on Apolyton in over five hours, so if they have him draft the message to us, there's no guarantee of when we'll get their answer. (His time zone is GMT-5, so I would sort of expect him to be logging in not too far from now, but then he'll still have to write the message.)

If we don't get a message by the time the turn comes, I suggest holding up the turn and waiting for it, much as I hate to do so. In the meantime, we might want to send a PM pointing out the problem and asking if someone on Vox other than BetaHound could give us a yes or no without all the fancy diplomatic stuff so we can keep the game moving.

Nathan

Edit: or at least it appeared to be addressed to both of us, so I'm assuming ManicStarSeed was sent a copy.

	09-01-2003 05:16									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

What happens if you open it btw SR?

Does the diplomacy window tell us anything? IE have they offered something back?

Is the isthmus free?

	09-01-2003 05:25									#26
	Remove this text

I don't have the save yet.

And yes, if I get it and open, the diplo screen opens with them proposing their part of the deal (if they agree). I have either to accept it, in which case the techs will be shared, or to make a new offer.

	09-01-2003 05:27									#27
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quote: Originally posted by alva What happens if you open it btw SR? Does the diplomacy window tell us anything? IE have they offered something back? Is the isthmus free?

If he opens the game, he'll be able to tell whether they accepted the first round of trades in game, but not whether they accepted the entire two-stage proposal. And if we accept the first stage but they aren't planning to go through with the second, we give them an advantage, which I hate to do when they have another potential trading partner but we don't (assuming they weren't lying).

	09-01-2003 05:33									#28
	Re: Turn 28 Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I have preset the no-brainers (IMHO), you're free to edit them:

If any of you would like us to keep the ability to edit each other's posts (or if you'd like the bug fixed) you should check out this thread to vote on the issue.

	09-01-2003 05:48									#29
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BetaHound is now online, so maybe we'll get our answer before way too much longer.

	09-01-2003 06:32									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm off, sleeping. Back in a few hours. Feel free to play the turn without me. Meshelic, after you sent the turn (if you do), don't forget to post in the Saved Game Thread.