08-01-2003 15:11									#1
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Hi,

Second question...

How do I make the intruder to leave my teritory or declare war in the diplomacy screen?

In my current game the Indians are using my teritory as camping ground and all I get in diplomacy after i tell them to leave is a promise.

I have seen that there is a possibility to make them choose to (automatically) withdraw or declare war. How do I do that?

Thanks.

	08-01-2003 15:17									#2
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	08-01-2003 15:18									#3
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I think you get that option when the enemy is canping directly next (in one of the 8 surrounding squares) to one of your cities. Otherwise I wouldn't know for sure.
Maybe one of your units has to stand next to one of theirs (so you can kick them out if they declare war?).

	08-01-2003 15:40									#4
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It depends on how close to a city the units are, as well as the number (and type) of units. Small numbers of workers and scouts, for example, can wander around for quite some time inside another civ's territory before being kicked out. I haven't seen anybody doing serious tests about this, however (hint, hint).

	08-01-2003 15:53									#5
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I guess youre right. There have been a couple of workers moving around and frigates around my cities, but no real military units.

In the meantime the problem has been solved by me capturing the workers and going to war with India. My invasion was not very successful though. I am still used to the old CIV games where capturing cities was MUCH easier.

Live and learn.....

	08-01-2003 16:46									#6
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	08-01-2003 17:11									#7
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I find this a bit erratic. I had a German archer march right up to a city with one archer defending (the other defender was away dealing with a barb encampment) and when I challenged them they only promised to leave. Next turn Bismarck declared war and took the city!

I wasn't having that so I went back to the autosave, declared war and destroyed his archer first. But I could not force him to leave on my turn even though his unit was right next to my city.

	08-01-2003 17:27									#8
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It also appears that you can never force a settler to withdraw. As is typical late in the game, conquering any enemy city frequently opens up free territory and every civ will rush settlers there even if it means trespaaing across dozens of my tiles. I've resorted to using units to block them, but that always seems to harm my reputation even tho all i'm doing is protecting my own territory. Leave or declare war should always be a diplomatic option. Its inexcusable that the AI was programmed for the AI settlers to ignore borders.

	08-01-2003 19:39									#9
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quote: Originally posted by ALPHA WOLF 64 I've resorted to using units to block them, but that always seems to harm my reputation even tho all i'm doing is protecting my own territory.

It shouldn't harm your rep to merely block the AI units from moving across your territory. I used to make an entire line of units in my territory to impede AI progress, and it didn't seem to do anything to my rep.

	08-01-2003 20:03									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Daz Hi, Second question... How do I make the intruder to leave my teritory or declare war in the diplomacy screen? In my current game the Indians are using my teritory as camping ground and all I get in diplomacy after i tell them to leave is a promise. I have seen that there is a possibility to make them choose to (automatically) withdraw or declare war. How do I do that? Thanks.

First off, if India is sending troops into your territority, it's a good sign that your military could use a bit of beefing up. If your strong in comparison, they won't want to risk triggering a war they might lose.

If that really, really bothers you, try making a hidden nationality unit. If he sends anything your way, you can whack the unit without having to go to war. Careful though, the AI knows how to use them as well.

	08-01-2003 21:36									#11
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For me, the powerful military thing always works. The AI fears my forces and rarely risks any kind of incursion.

	10-01-2003 14:54									#12
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quote: Originally posted by ALPHA WOLF 64 It also appears that you can never force a settler to withdraw. As is typical late in the game, conquering any enemy city frequently opens up free territory and every civ will rush settlers there even if it means trespaaing across dozens of my tiles. I've resorted to using units to block them, but that always seems to harm my reputation even tho all i'm doing is protecting my own territory. Leave or declare war should always be a diplomatic option. Its inexcusable that the AI was programmed for the AI settlers to ignore borders.

It's not entirely correct that you can never force settlers to withdraw, but non-military units can stay very much longer than military before being forced to withdraw. The same applies to the human non-military units inside enemy borders: Your explorer can stay up to 32 turns in enemy territory before being forced to leave - the same goes for enemy settlers inside your territory. If they stay at least 4 squares away from any of your cities, then it takes 32 turns before you can force it to leave.

If it is accompanied by a military unit, then you can force it to leave within a few (max 4 IIRC) turns though.

	10-01-2003 21:53									#13
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quote: First off, if India is sending troops into your territority, it's a good sign that your military could use a bit of beefing up. If your strong in comparison, they won't want to risk triggering a war they might lose.

I was, and still am, stronger than the Aztecs. They sent 2 units into my territory, I said leave -"OK" - They moved further in - LEAVE! - "OK". They moved onto one of my irrigated tiles - LEAVE OR DECLARE WAR! - they declared war, I took 4 of their cities!!

It may be that Monty is more aggressive than Gandhi, but comparative strength does not always seem to matter.

	10-01-2003 22:56									#14
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I miss the "expel" command from CTP2... it was good and always worked, not necessarily leading you to an unwanted war.

	11-01-2003 04:56									#15
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quote: Originally posted by justjake73 It may be that Monty is more aggressive than Gandhi, but comparative strength does not always seem to matter.

Of course not. There's several reasons for the AI to go to war with you, like a resource for instance. Relative strength is just one aspect of their behaviour towards you.

	11-01-2003 19:47									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Alexnm I miss the "expel" command from CTP2... it was good and always worked, not necessarily leading you to an unwanted war.

AFAIK you can't expel military units even in CtP2. Only settlers, diplomats, spies and such.

	12-01-2003 00:31									#17
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I believe that if you ask a civ to leave your territory several times ON THE SAME TURN, you eventually get the 'leave or declare war' option.

	12-01-2003 00:46									#18
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"I believe that if you ask a civ to leave your territory several times ON THE SAME TURN, you eventually get the 'leave or declare war' option."

I think once you do this for a unit, the option doesn't come back again...

	13-01-2003 16:02									#19
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Flandrien: Whether or not you get to force the enemies out is a factor of: Number of military units, number of non-military units, how close they are to your closest city and how many turns they have been in your territory.

How many times you ask the to leave doesn't matter.

	13-01-2003 16:46									#20
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Sorry to say this, but it does matter.

(The option comes back until all units are finally gone.)

	13-01-2003 17:32									#21
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I thought you had to ask the offending units to leave at least 2 times (on two consecutive turns) before, on the third turn you got the option to leave or declare war?

	13-01-2003 20:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Th0mas I thought you had to ask the offending units to leave at least 2 times (on two consecutive turns) before, on the third turn you got the option to leave or declare war?

Not necessarily. Quite often you can get that message right away.

	14-01-2003 17:45									#23
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I found this on my harddrive:


The test proved a few things:
* The human player can stay within enemy territory exactly as long as the AI before the "leave or declare war" comes. So no cheating here.
* The number of turns a unit can stay inside enemy territory is dependant of number of military units, range to closest enemy city, and number of non-military units (which counts much less than military units). Type of military units does not matter, so a MA can stay exactly as long as a warrior.
* When forced to leave, a unit is teleported to the closest uncontrolled or friendly controlled square. This may be unsettled territory on the other side or an otherwise unavailable island (since galleys are teleported to a coast square).
The rules for this is the same for the human and the AI, so you can get your units teleported as well.

One difference between the human and the AI is that the AI usually sends only one settler/spearman combo, and can therefore stay up to 4 turns before we can force it to leave, while the human player tends to consentrate its force a bit more and send in several military units at the same time, which kicks off the "leave or declare war" option after only a turn or two.
So if you want to get several units past the enemy, send them in one at a time, and the enemy must let them pass, just as the human player must.


It's from a test some apolytoner have done(sorry, don't remember your name, forgot to write it down)

	14-01-2003 18:55									#24
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Bongo: It was I who did those tests (and wrote what you quoted). I started a thread on CFC after having done a few tests, and this thread can be found here.

When doing these tests, the AI would always ask me to leave the first turn, and then force me a few turns later. I would always get the option of forcing the AI out the same turn that I was forced out, even if I hadn't asked them to leave at all before that.

	14-01-2003 19:36									#25
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I remembered the flag(of course) but I wasn't sure of your name.

	14-01-2003 20:32									#26
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Bongo: Not only do we have the same flag, but we also live in the same location: Lørenskog. Do you have PTW? It could be interesting to try a LAN MP (I can play on my laptop).

	15-01-2003 11:14									#27
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Dang, I read that thread, and still I had forgotten all about it. Well, I will use the "1-unit for free" trick with much more confidence now.

	15-01-2003 14:16									#28
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theNiceOne : I only have vanilla civ3.
Det største problemet med civ er selvfølgelig tid, jeg har samboer, jobb og leilighet så spilling må tas innimellom, dvs lite og uregelmessig. Men jeg har bredbånd fra UPC og da klarer vi oss kanskje uten LAN? Selges PTW på metro?

	15-01-2003 17:54									#29
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Barbarian languages aren't allowed at Apolyton.

	15-01-2003 18:08									#30
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But we're not barbarians now that PTW is awailable. Scandinavia is a major civ now, remember

Bongo: Jeg er i samme situasjon, pluss ei to år gammel datter, men tenkte det kunne være gøy å sette av en kveld. Jeg har ikke mer enn ISDN nå, men altså en bærbar jeg kan ta med. Jeg har fatktisk ikke PTW (har ikke sett det i en eneste butikk), men er på utkikk.

Du kan kontakte meg på ole.boe@no.thalesgroup.com for videre kontakt.