08-01-2003 23:18									#1
	GS tech proposal- the wheel for bronze working Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It's on the board right now, and I have the game loaded. What shall our response be?

	08-01-2003 23:20									#2
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I think they want this decision in a hurry because it does dictate their course of action. Do they start building war chariots are continue normal expansion.

If we do need peace with them we have to agree to something like where we draw the line between our to civilizations (we would need accurate maps to do this). Because hostilities could erupt in the land grab in south estonia.

	08-01-2003 23:21									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

We shouldnt accept IMO. Giving them a unit of defense 2 might be a mistake in the case we dont get Iron and will have to fight our way through. Such scenario is relatively likely.

	08-01-2003 23:22									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Diss - ICQ.

	08-01-2003 23:24									#5
	Tired of ads?

not good for us

Jon Miller

	08-01-2003 23:25									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

icq or irc? I have both running

	08-01-2003 23:26									#7
	Put an end to popups!

Before I knew you also played the game I played the turn.

I did the following :

Moved both southern warrior to mountains, while selecting the best mountain exploration wise.
I moved the non-fortified warrior East of the chokepoint to the hill SE of it(the GS warrior moved from there) and it uncovered a second GS warrior on another hill S-SE-SE of the chokepoint.

	08-01-2003 23:31									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

yeah I know they have at least 3 warriors running around. I should update the Thread of everything.

	08-01-2003 23:37									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I am on IRC

Jon Miller

	08-01-2003 23:41									#10
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

On my way to mIRC...

	09-01-2003 00:16									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

OK 3 of us had a little discussion about foreign affairs with GS and a little talk about Lux.

We will try to get our spearman in position to make contact next turn. The spearman after that will move south to the chokepoint. The worker will road the chokepoint then move north to connect the luxery- I believe it would be too dangerous to move him south.

We will delay the trade for now. We will have to come up with a diplomatic message to stall them. And we'll see what Lux has. They start with the same techs we have unfortunately. But they may have something interesting.

	09-01-2003 01:44									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes, I agree. The wheel for bronze working is not a good trade for us... I wonder if they would be willing to "sweeten the pot" a bit by adding some gold to their offer, or if they have nothing to hide, maybe giving us a copy of their territory maps...though I really doubt that they would.

	09-01-2003 06:16									#13
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If they'll give us their world map + the tech, I'd almost say take it right there...

	09-01-2003 06:20									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

True and I agree Sky - but I don't think that they would agree to it. Of course, we could always try...it doesn't hurt to ask (unless they take it as an outright insult)...but that's why we have Beta and his silver tougue!

	09-01-2003 06:54									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

And here is the silver-tongue devil himself....

We may want to give it a shot - can we trade territory maps this early - I can't recall.

But if yes - we could propose the deal.

Hey! Just a thought. Do we want to give them our territory map. It will keep them happy on the exploration issue - yet keep them from contacting Lux, and from wandering through our territory. Just a thought.

But in general - I agree that bronze working gives them a heck of a lot more than The Wheel gives us. By itself it is a bad trade.

Now - if we can get in the middle of Lux and GS, and get a one for one tech trade going - then trade that to the other - we would be in a STRONG position. We would be ahead of both our neighbours.

IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHAT OUR MEDIUM TERM GOALS ARE FOR OUR CONTINENT. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO DECIDE!!!!

If the goal is to takeover the continent, then no trades, keep stalling on exploration and other talks, and pit our Immortals and spearmen against their chariots.

If the goal is peaceful co-existance (and we need to ask ourself if this is possible in either the medium or long run) then yes, by all means, let's trade and trade vigorously. And let's draw a line somewhere across the continent and agree on settling rights.

	09-01-2003 07:06									#16
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we can't trade maps yet

	09-01-2003 07:14									#17
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I believe our MEDIUM-TERM goal should be a mixure of the two options - For now, peaceful co-existance then later the assimilation of the landmass itself. Mainly, peaceful co-existance until we have Immortals.

If we offer our world map along with bronze working - for their world map and the wheel, I believe thay should also offer additonal gold to seal the deal, since IMO, bronze working is worth alot more than the wheel.

And you are right, even if GS has our world map, they would not be able to tell from it which civilization we have contact with - just a picture of the second landmass next to ours...

Thoughts?

	09-01-2003 07:17									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Dissident we can't trade maps yet

Really?!? I thought, in all of my past games, I was able to trade maps right after first contact was made. I know you need writing for establishing an embassy, but trading maps, I thought, was always an option after 1st contact.

	09-01-2003 07:19									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

should we make a poll on our medium range poll. Are we all agreed that we try to settle/conquer the entire continent?

If so we will stall tech trades with GS and do trades with Lux.

	09-01-2003 07:26									#20
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Good point Dissident. I truely prefer not trading techs with GS (especially if it's only for the Wheel), but a tech trade with Lux is a win-win situation IMO.

Dissident - can you start the poll concernig our medium range goals?

	09-01-2003 08:32									#21
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uhh OK . I'm not sure how to word it yet. Any suggestions?

	09-01-2003 09:51									#22
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I think that we should let it play out some

just do stuff that keeps our options open

Jon Miller