09-01-2003 22:37									#1
	My attempt at a "switching factions " Challenge Support Apolyton

I recalled hearing of players doing this so I decided to give it a try. I set up a game on a random world with completely random factions (Smax,transcend, all other settings in the middle except I customized less ocean). . I decided at the outset that I would switch factions at 2150 and 2200. Each time I would take the worst faction as evidenced by the powergraph (imperfect I know, but I did not want to gain the info that a closer examination of each would give-- heck I did not even want to look at the complete map) and play them. Whatever faction I got in 2200 would be the one I would use to finish the game.

The factions for the game came up as, Pks, Drones, Caretakers, Usurpers, Cult, Morgan and Roze. I was The Peacekeepers to start. The first 50 years were pretty uneventful as I grew my PKs to a solid second place in the powergraphs. I found myself pretty much west of the Usurpers while the Cult were a little further east on my landmass. By 2150 I had 9 bases and a population of 15-- I believe each had a rec tank and most had a rec commons or creche-- The terraforming was mainly forest with some mined rocky squares (and crawlers coming online). All in all, a very comfortable position. IIRC correctly, the powergraph showed the Caretakers just leading my PKs who just edged out the Usurpers, Drones and then Angels. The morganites trailed appreciably and the cult was noticably below them.

THE CULT YEARS 2150-2200

Opening up as the cult, I found I had 1 size 3 base that could build nothing as it was supporting far too many units. Even more pitiful was their tech situation as they had yet to discover probe teams or better weapons. Thankfully they did have a number of worms spread across the globe. My first steps were to

1. disband a couple of units
2. move all native life into the fungus and toward my usurper neigbors
3. embark on an agressive colony pod build program

The warlike ways were beginning to pay off in the 50 years. The cult captured 3 usurper bases and 1 PK and in all, acquired 11 technologies through theft and base capture. BY 2200 my cult had 9 bases and a population of 39 and more importantly, was on tech parity with the neighbors. The powergraphs still showed the caretakers (whom I had not yet met) just edging my old PKs who were just marginally ahead of the Drones and my Cult. The Usurpers were just a little lower down and then it was quite a little gap to the angels and then a collosal step down to the Morganites. While my Cult were in 3rd-4th place, I felt good knowing they semed to have the Usurpers on the run.


THE MORGAN YEARS 2200 ONWARD

I opened up the Morgan faction to find that they had 3 bases for a population of 9 and had not even met any other factions yet-- tech was pitiful but then I saw the energy reserves-- 736 energy credits !! Yum-- It was rush rush rush everything I could. Then in 2210 the angels came caling with gatling weapons-- I had no armour better than synthmetal so I ended up buying peace ( at 50 energy a pop) twice and ignored the units that wandered in my lands-- In 2235 or so when they demanded 225 ec I told them to get lost and had enough stuff to kill the marauding angel units.

My morganites grew and grew and used probeships to start stealing techs from the angels (almost all died in the process). In 2248 I was shocked to be able to build the empath guild and contact everyone but only managed to get a couple of techs out of the drones whom I pacted with..

Elsewhere, the cult faction completed the conquest of the Usurpers in 2252 and the caretakers began munching the Drones around that time. Once the cult finished off the Usurpers they then started fighting the PKs in earnest but it has seemed to mainly be a futile stand-off from the limited info I have.

My morganites were the first to MMI and after building the cyborg factory and the CBA. I began a serious conquest of the Data Angels. BY early in the 2300s I had captured all their best bases (including 4 that were size 11 or more) and they have become my submissive. Their bases also netted me 3 or 4 Special Projects .

Aside from the Angels campaign, probeships also probed the heck out of the Caretakers and netted 4 techs and their map. By 2310 or so, no AI faction had any tech that I did not have and there was no other AI faction in range of my aircraft (The Angels are to my west in the northernpolar region and there is a vast expanse of ocean to my east, a large vacant continent is to my south and there is a string of islands leading to the caretakers to my west). I therefore used drop colonies to island hop my way onto the caretaker lands and have been using clean choppers, drop AAA troops and drop probes in a fairly methodical conquest. The AI keeps sending probes into range of the bases I captured and I pick off between 2 and 6 each turn.

The current situation is that it is now 2327 and I am 5 or 6 techs ahead of the combined techs of the AI factions. The cloning vats is built and at 50% science I pull in over 1000 tech points a turn. This tech ability is growing rapidly as there are now 5 ports that have

1.all labs up to the fusion lab
2. a gang of 2-3 seaformers
3. thermoclines and hybrid forests
4. the ability to produce a sea crawler each and every turn



Homo Superior is currently being researched so the tech lead will only grow with the universal translator coming. The military situation will only get more lopsided as I am currently waiting to get shard weapons to do yet another upgrade on my chopper forces . I have yet to see an enemy aircraft as I think they are just now researching it.

I haved played enough to know that this game is won but I will play out 20-30 more years to make it clearer. Interestingly, my morganites only have a moderate lead in the powergraphs over the caretakers -- I guess their remaining huge population factors in here. As for the remaining factions, my two old factions (cult and peacekeepers) are comfortably in 3rd and 4th-- virtually tied-- and would probably be much stronger if they had not spent so many resources fighting each other. My submissive, the angels, are far down but still are ahead of the drones (who have one base left IIRC). The Usurpers are long dead.


As challenges go, it was pretty easy but I may try it again to see if this one was typical. I will probably try it without aliens next time. Two things I could do to make it harder

1. Switch factions a third time in 2250-- in this particular game I would likely have gotten ther Usurpers( given their extinction in 2252). Could be mission impossible .

2. Switch only when I can attain first place in the graph. The though is that you can only desert a faction when it is dominant, leaving a more formidable adversary to deal with--


Overall, I like the concept and will certainly try this type of thing again

Last edited by Flubber on 09-01-2003 at 22:43

	10-01-2003 10:08									#2
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F:

I've played a few of these types of game, but with a slightly different timescale. I'll stick to my starting faction until 2200 - by then it ususally has a sizeable lead, then I'll do the scenario switch, but unlike you, to the one with the lowest population. (and you don't see the map if you are zoomed into the current faction you are playing when you effect the switch)

Then I'll play faction # 2 for 75 years, then switch again to the lowest - popwise - at 2275. I'll play out as that third faction

I find that really challenging as for the middle/endgame you will be playing against 2 really strong factions (those two that you built) who will invariably now be in Vendetta, and both demanding that you join their cause against the other.

My first 3 or 4 games, winning was just a case of surviving as that 3rd faction, amassing crawlers, and waiting till one of the heavyweights got Voice, then upgrade/cash in time.

My more recent games have involved disabling 'Victory by Transcendence' which makes it extremely difficult to win (although I have won a 'Planetary Leader' victory when the two strongmen beat each others' brains out and I survived, growing, to win out. I;ve never won militarily that way, though.

I agree, that as single player games go, they can be a lot of fun, and different.

(But it pains me to leave a faction with 60 or 70 crawlers onl;y to find thru infiltration that after twenty years the AI has none left - all used to rush prototypes, etc)

G.

	10-01-2003 14:58									#3
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How do you switch factions? This sounds entertaining.

	10-01-2003 15:45									#4
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You have to activate the Scenario Editor (Ctrl-K), being careful to not peek in any extra info while you perform the Switch (Shift-F3) and deactivate again (Ctrl-K).

I wonder, what instead of a challenge in which you must win by ALWAYS remaining the lowest faction in the powergraph?

	10-01-2003 22:40									#5
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quote: Originally posted by MariOne I wonder, what instead of a challenge in which you must win by ALWAYS remaining the lowest faction in the powergraph?

This would be an interesting challenge...

	10-01-2003 23:25									#6
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quote: Originally posted by MariOne I wonder, what instead of a challenge in which you must win by ALWAYS remaining the lowest faction in the powergraph?

That could be a different type of challenge since to do it, I would think that you could play it as a One City Challenge ( as to overall style) but at the same time you might have to create a few other higher population bases to give away to any faction that is getting conquered. Couple this with tech gifts to everyone and you should have no problem staying in last in the powergraph.

The only problem you might have is that garnering too many special projects might bump you up in the powergraphs . I think such a challenge would be doable if you are not too strict in the enforcement in the early years (since the university's extra tech or even establishing your first base might put you ahead of some factions). Since it is pretty easy to manipulate the powergraph I don't think it would be that hard to keep yourself in last place from 2150 on.



Googlie-- I used the powergraph as my measure but in each case, it was the lowest population faction that I joined -- Either method would yield the same choice. I will try this challenge again with your timelines but I would imagine that there may be occasion where you inherit a side thats gacing imminent extinction-. Now THERE is a challenge-- take a faction with 1 size one base, surrounded by hostile units and win--.


Another challenge I am thinking about is the "do-nothing" challenge. I will hit turn complete for 50 years and then found my first base and go from there-- Does that seem like it would be difficult to overcome??

	11-01-2003 13:03									#7
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I've started a few games along these lines, but never gotten far enough into them to satisfy my switching criteria. IIRC, my rules were to do various things when on top of the power chart, but I always ended up in games where one or more of the AI got a big lead and I was saddled with aggressive neighbors, which slowed me down and made for a long uphill trek, where I got tired of the games before getting to the magic point.

One of my intended variations was not to switch factions when I got on top, but to give away one of my "best" bases whenever I started a turn in the lead. "Best" bases would be as determined by whatever screen that is (F3?), and I would try to give the base to whomever seemed to be in last place (or the worst one that I could give it to anyway). Might be kind of tough if you got too attatched to your nice bases and it might be hard to avoid thinking about the ramafications whenever you made a base decision, but it should be a great equalizer.

	12-01-2003 01:08									#8
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JDM:

I like that variant. Would be especially hard to give away a base with that dear-to-the-heart SP (eg the CDF, when suddenly all remaining bases were now without Perims!!)

At least you'd not be giving them to a Vendetta rival, as they prolly wouldn't talk to you anyway.

I'm going to fire up a game and give it a go. Thanks for the idea

G.

	12-01-2003 02:18									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

F4 screen for best base IIRC.
This all sounds most intriguing. Despite being a relative lightweight when it comes to SMAC/X (I can so far only dream of winning a OCC, and have only won twice on Transcend) I like the idea of build-switch. Given that I have some time off from college (quote "study-leave" unquote) I might try one - maybe even tomorrow. Could be interesting

I'll let you know how it goes.

	12-01-2003 18:57									#10
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"Whenever"???

does this entail eventually giving away one base every turn until you drop in 2nd place?
Of course this won't apply as long as you have only one base...
Or as long you haven't met another AI to give away the base to....
Or, as Googlie pointed out, as long as you're at V'detta with all those you met, so that they won't heed you, not even to receive a gift....

See, we got to the point, that we know even how to "legally cheat" the same rules we are making for ourselves

	13-01-2003 03:42									#11
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Oh the dreams of being that good at SMAC/X. So far the only challenge I can afford is waiting to build any SP untill any AI players starts building that same SP.

Asmodean

	14-01-2003 04:29									#12
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Well, I've started, and it's been quite interesting so far...
Random faction threw up Dee, Morgan, Lal, Miriam, Yang, Sven and Zakharov - with me starting as Zakharov. Got to one tech every 3 turns, expanded like hell, got SotHB inside seven years. Brief Vendetta against Miriam; shot to early #1 in power chart before being overtaken by Pirates.
MY2150 - switched factions to....Miriam. Yum. Turned out I had one base left - New Jerusalem - and Vendettas on Zakharov (my own damn fault), Morgan and Lal. On the verge of obliteration. Called Lal up and it turns out Miriam committed an atrocity (no idea what - base obliteration maybe?) against him while still under AI control. However, I got Pacts with Morgie and Dee and a Treaty with Zak and began expanding. Tech was a problem, as was energy, but through expansion and negotiation one base quickly became eight and I was moving up the chart - albeit slowly.
MY2200 - close decision. Yang or Morgan. Yang turned out to be slightly behind Morgie so I went blue.
Aargh. Three bases only, two tied down supporting ridiculous numbers of troops. No less than FIVE latent colony pods sat around in a base, on hold, doing nothing.
Ridiculous numbers of troops disbanded. Five colony pods quickly became five new bases, and a negative energy intake negated (although it left me at 0 with two bases on Stockpile).

So how am I doing right now? My University lost their way shortly after I left them - expansion became consolidation became atrophication. Miriam quickly started a blitzkrieg against Morgan (and has obliterated him). Her Pact with Dee also disappeared and Dee is currently down to only two bases - one of which is being defended by me (Yang) and me alone. The Pirates kept climbing the power chart, but a short Vendetta with them netted me the Empath Guild and the Command Nexus and the Planetary Governorship (despite fierce opposition). I have Pacts with Zak and Dee, a Truce with Sven and Vendettas on Lal (I'm running Police) and Miriam. The Believers are falling slowly before my air power, but both they and the Pirates are starting to use AAA. I'm still behind in tech but have just probed P-S A away from Zak (framing Sven - luckily!) and am building the HSA with all speed. It's looking good - I've clawed my way to #1 on the power graph despite not being a natural Hive player (give me Aki, Dee or Zak any day).

*deep breath* Talk about a long post...and you probably didn't want to know any of it. Still.
I was planning to change yet again in 2250, but a) I'm not yet that good, b) I'd just spent YEARS dragging first Miriam and then Yang up by their cojones and c) the lowest faction on the powergraph at the time was Morgan, with one base and no units. Miriam obliterated him the year after. Somehow I don't think I'd've survived...

	14-01-2003 05:01									#13
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Clearskies

sounds like an interesting game. I faced the same issue about a 3rd switch-- switching in 2250 would have given me the Usurpers which were eradicated in 2252-- I doubt I could have saved them.

It sounds as if you had some reasonable fortunewhen you switched. I would have laughed at the AI but enjoyed the latent power of those available colony pods. It sounds as if you have a good game going.

As for mine, I hope to complete it ( well at least make my lead insurmountable before moving on) soon ( many PBEM turns await me). Then I think I will try it again using ther googlie variant of playing the factions for 100 and 75 years each-- That sounds like quite a challenge, particularly if I choose a high tech faction like the university to start and leave them with either probe defenders or the HSA.

	15-01-2003 23:06									#14
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Well, the game's going very well. Miriam and Sven are safely inside their punishment spheres and my dominance is unchallenged. Aaaaand it's getting slightly dull...so I might try a triple-switch game next time

Attachment: dominance.jpg
This has been downloaded 79 time(s).

	19-01-2003 03:18									#15
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This is the only kind of game I played in years. My version of the rules:

1. Play the first random faction for at least 50 turns, if you are #1 switch to the last. If your are not #1 continue until you become #1.

2. Play the new (weakest) faction until you bring it up to #1 position (no time limit) and then switch again to the weakest.

3. Repeat the same way as step 2 until you have played all 7 factions in the game and win with the last one.

I have to admit: I never managed to play all 7. I had one game when I might have made it, but unfortunately 1 section was eliminated before I could switch to it, so I could only play 6 and win with the last.

But this type of challenge is definitely the most fun I had in single player games