10-01-2003 03:18									#1
	GS Tech Trade - What do we do? Suffering from ads?

This is the poll that goes with the proposed response to GS, follwing the previous poll, which the last time I looked was 4-1 in favour of keeping our options open.

I see three choices.

1. No Trades.

This means they have to research bronze working to get spearman. For the next period it will be their chariots and our spearmen, and then our immortals if we find iron. It will solidify our early game advantage if we want to go to war. By the time immortals are coming out, they will have few if any spearmen, so they would probably come out swinging with chariots.

(WE WILL NEED TO KEEP AN EYE ON THIS. THEY MAY SEEM SO THREATENED BY THIS SET UP THAT THEY COME AT US EARLY.)

For this option we can use the excuse that we are negotiating right now with our neighbours and want to see what they have on the table. Which is true.

A last consideration - this will force them into the bronze and iron research path - which keeps them away from Alphabet, Writing, Literature.

2. Agree to the bronze working for wheel trade.

This may make them feel less threatened. Why? Because the downside is that it clearly weakens our hand for an early military advantage.

It is a 30 beeker (bronze) for 40 beeker (wheel) trade. This is good.

Another consideration is that they likely have burnt up a couple of turns researching bronze already, so we have wasted some of their research.

Gives us the wheel, with which we can wheel and deal with Lux.

3. Agree to the bronze for wheel trade, and agree to the future Alphabet (50 beeker) for Iron (60 beeker)trade as they proposed. All the above apply to the first part.

It keeps them away from researching iron working.

We can always renege on the second part, if we want to get aggressive.

If we go through with it, we will have gone on to researching something else, and will have even more to trade with Lux.

One more consideraion in all this - it probably applies to the first point and the early threat of war if they come at us with chariots if they seemd threatened. If this does happen, and a chariot wins a battle, their Golden Age would be activated. At a point when they have 3-5 samll cities. This could be a huge advantage for us down the road. We survive the initial on-slought, have afew more cities, roll out some Immortals, and use our own some 10-15 turns later to hopefully overpower them.

Anyways - get out and VOTE!!!

	10-01-2003 04:33									#2
	Tired of ads?

in the note send them that we expect to get pottery presently and ask if they would like to trade pottery for the wheel

next turn (or the turn after) offer wheel/bronze trade

Jon Miller

	10-01-2003 04:39									#3
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as long as we are not killing them at the time, iron for alphabet is good for us

Jon Miller

	10-01-2003 04:42									#4
	Suffering from ads?

basically right now I am thinking of the tech lead we would have

I am not sure if it is in our interest to eliminate GS (particularly if we REX enough) at this stage of the game

Jon Miller

	10-01-2003 04:46									#5
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beta, I would like you send to send off your pm very fast (if possible before their next turn)

Jon Miller

	10-01-2003 04:53									#6
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you guys realise that GS finished the wheel (40 beekers) 14 turns faster than we are set to finish iron working (50 sheilds)

we will need all the tech advantage we can get

Jon Miller

	10-01-2003 05:35									#7
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Minor correction - iron working is 60 beekers. But your point is still valid.

And I posted the poll, but still have not voted. I've been composing.

	10-01-2003 05:50									#8
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jon - your point regarding the speed with which they researched the wheel - how did they do that!!!!???? Can someone calculate whether that is possible,

I think they may have traded for it.....

In which case, they would have a neighbour to the south. Seems doubtful given their five warriors to the north - but - the research rate does seem alarming.

Any other thoughts?
T

	10-01-2003 05:54									#9
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er - my poll, and then I cast my vote wrong. manually move one vote from option 2 to 3.

	10-01-2003 13:14									#10
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another voted. Well with Betahounds vote on #3, that is 3 votes for #3 and 2 for #1.

actually I want to move my vote from #1 to #2. Since they are already researching bronze working we might as well trade it to them. Maybe they will lose a couple of turns of research.

So make that 3 votes for #3, 1 vote for #2, and 1 vote for #1.

	10-01-2003 20:11									#11
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we can always say that we will do iron for alphabet and than not do it

they will just be starting alphabet

Jon Miller

	10-01-2003 20:11									#12
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those who voted for 1 should give reasons (sicne you are in the minority and have not given reasons)

Jon Miller

	10-01-2003 20:29									#13
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I'm afraid that we wont have Iron. And I dont want giving them spearmen in this case.

	10-01-2003 20:43									#14
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I voted for #3, but Eli does make a good point - I just hope that we do have iron.

	10-01-2003 23:02									#15
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that's why I'm against #3. If we don't have iron we definately don't want #3. But since they were researching bronze anyway I went with #2.

	10-01-2003 23:03									#16
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their recent pm insists that we do both trades. hmm

	11-01-2003 00:25									#17
	Remove this text

we say we will do 3, but not do ti?

Jon Miller

	11-01-2003 00:34									#18
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point out that we want to do war tech for war tech, peace tech for peace tech

Jon Miller

	11-01-2003 00:36									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

note that we have Lux

of course, they may have met someone also (I don't think they had pottery when we first met), either that or an unpopped hut

Jon Miller

	11-01-2003 00:54									#20
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I just think they get a heck of a lot more strategic advantage out of bronze than we get with the wheel.


OK - how about a new vote - two options.

1. No trade. Which may mean they get antsy about the geography again.
2. Trade - which for now means bronze for wheel. We will say all the right things about the future, we will wait and see what happens when we get there.

One last poll - this time with feeling.

	11-01-2003 22:15									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

manually add +1 to option 3

I think we should renege on the deal. Then they're way behind on Iron working compared to us.

	11-01-2003 22:22									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Well true, since they don't have bronze working yet.