10-01-2003 03:44									#1
	Questions about Terrain and the explaination the prima's Strategy Guide gives Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

A few questions about Terrain, based on the information I got from Prima’s Strategy Guide for CivIII (PSG):
 
PSG says:

• Forest:
  Forests have always been wonderful assets to a city. They provide the most shields of any terrain type while still providing food. Forests also offer an additional bonus–they can be harvested for a one-time windfall of 10 shields. This is a great way to hurry the production of an important unit, improvement, or Wonder.
  Because Forests produce only one food per turn, a city built on a Forest square grows at a slower-than-normal rate–but it benefits from the Forest’s defensive bonus. Although you shouldn’t make a habit of building your cities in Forests, such a city can be succesful if the surrounding squares produce enough food to compensate.
  

• Tip:
  When you build a city, the terrain square on which you build it is automacally improved in every way possible: irrigation, mining, and roads. That means that the city square itself reaps the increased benefits of the improved terrain. This makes the choice of terrain for a city very important. Cities built on terrain that cannot benefit from one or more terrain improvement method will accumulate fewer resources than those built on highly improvable terrain.
  

My Question:
When you build a city on a Forest square, is it automatically harvested? If so, where are the shields going to? And, do you still have the defensive bonus then, if it’s harvested? In my game I set a city on a forest (after building it, the info says: Plains, with food 2, shields 1, commerce 1 (before building on it, it was: 1 / 2 / 0).

But, on the info of PSG it should be 2 / 2 / 1, but if I translate this on the terrain type Plains, it would be correct…. (so that could be the answer, then, I guess…).
BUT, how does it explain this: on another city wich is placed on Plains gets 2 / 1 / 2 (population 4, maybe that is an explanation…?), comparing to the note from PSG it should be 2 / 2 / 1 . Where is my mind going wrong in this???????



On Rivers then…
PSG says:

• Rivers:
  Grassland and Plains squares bordered by rivers make excellent city sites because of the extra commerce they produce. The defending units inside the city also receive the defensive bonus if the city is attacked across the rivers.
  

My Question:
Rivers can occur also adjacent/in Coast, Tundra, Flood Plain, Forest, Jungle, Hills, and Mountains, doesn’t occur the extra commerce-benefit there as well, then?



On Resources:
PSG says:

• Luxury Resource:
  To reap the happiness benefit of a luxury resource, you must build a road to it. You don’t have to have a citizen working on the terrain square to reap the happiness benefits of the luxury, nor does the luxury have to be within the city radius. To collect the food, shield, and commerce bonuses, however, the terrain must be within yor city radius and one of your citizens must be working on it.

My Question:
So, does this say you don’t have to have your luxuries within your borders then? Of course, if this is true, you will build a colony or city near it eventually, before other civs will get it, but in the early game you can profit fom this! –if this is true–….


Can anybody clear this out? I've tried some things in games, but I still get confused!

There is also another thing which I can't explain; In PtW's civilopedia there is an extra Terrain named 'Fresh Water Lake': it produces one extra food (in comparison with 'Coast'), but in the Editor you can only produce the lake by using Coast squares, how will it get its extra food then? I know in maps produced by the computer this is true, but will it occur when you make a map yourselves?


Well....if there is any answer to one of these questions, I will be delighted & grateful!!!



(kiss from Vixblu *x*x* !)

	10-01-2003 03:52									#2
	Suffering from ads?

Regarding the luxories, you can reap its benefits if it is roaded and in your territory (but not necessarily in a city radius), or if it has a colony.

As to the Fresh Water Lake, it is defined as a coastal lake completely surrounded by land. There is no special Fresh Water terrain, and the random maps do it the same way.

Hope that clears a little of the fog.

	10-01-2003 03:55									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Forests:

PSG wrong...
First off they CANNOT be harvested to speed up PALACES, SMALL WONDERS or WONDERS. They will add shields to UNITS and BUILDINGS.
Second when you build a city on a forest it is converted to its base terrain, so you lose defense bonus and production and only get what the base terrain gives. Same with jungle for that matter.

Rivers:
Extra commerce comes from ANY square adjacent to a river (with a few buggy squares NOT getting it, but this is rare)

Luxuries:
Don't need to be in your territory, just a road and a colony or a road and in your territory. Of course the road must connect to the rest of your trade network.

You get the bonus food/shields/trade (as a bonus to THAT SQUARE) if it is worked by a pop unit from a city.

DONT BOTHER WITH THE STRATEGY GUIDE... everything you need to know is SOMEWHERE on these forums

	10-01-2003 04:36									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Unfortunately, the Prima Strategy Guide for PTW seems to have been written by someone who knew little about PTW, or Civ3 in general. Perhaps an author who spent 10-30 hours playing the game. While there is much valid info in the book, there is also much pure speculation and downright INvalid info (e.g., paying maintenance for captured workers).

The book should have been coauthored by someone who actually played the game intensively and knew the subject matter.

	10-01-2003 07:24									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Actually, the guide seems to have been written WELL in advance of the actual game. Numerous changes were made that invalidated many of their tables and tips.

	10-01-2003 11:00									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

forget about these guides: read some threads here and you'll get much more valid information from people who really played this game.

	10-01-2003 13:58									#7
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I agree, the only reason I could see someone buying a Strategy Guide is if they don't have access to the internet... and even then, it might not be worth it.

	10-01-2003 14:49									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Yezz! Of course I will get any answer here (& now i know for sure )

The Strategy Guide I bought, is the one for just CivIII (no info on PtW), and is written by someone who played on the first version. And I can agree with anyone who says, the same (& even better info) is here to find, but I had to check it out for myselfs, because I'm a complete nono in Computer Games, and I needed basic Strategy info, hoping I would find it in this book.

The info is there alright, but was no more than I just learned plaing with Civ (for a year now). And has some stupid things, that are no longer true (see above messages), mostly, I can eliminate those things to check out the data in the Editor, or Civilopedia (the last one is very minimal, though).

Another reason why you shouldn't bother buying this book: it is not cheap! (especially, when you have to ship it to the Netherlands....grmpf)

Thanx for answering, now I can complete my schemes on resources and terrains!

	10-01-2003 16:43									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

VixBlu, an excellent way to learn about the game is the Civ3 Demo Game. Look at the Civ3 Democracy Game forum and join us!

	10-01-2003 20:00									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't usually go on a rant about products.... but Prima has some *Really* bad folks working for it, or is otherwise doing something significantly wrong. Back when I played Evercrack, I submitted to them a 17-page list of errors in their guide to one of the expansions....they were all fixed in the next copy.

Prima's guides used to be good stuff.... now, they're just BAD.

	10-01-2003 22:24									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Aro

What a fun avatar.

-- PF

	14-01-2003 23:30									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

VixBlu, we're playing vanilla Civ3 (patch 1.21), a democracy game. No multi-player. This is our forum:
Civ3-Democracy Game .

quote: Originally posted by planetfall What a fun avatar. -- PF

I make the maps in our game...