20-12-2000 15:59									#1
	How to Measure Impact on Planet Ecology Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A topic no doubt explored before, but I don't see it anywhere.

It really bugs me that I can't easily figure out what kind of impact I'm having on the planet ecology until I'm suddenly told that in 20 turns sea level will rise 300 meters or whatever. I also have no idea how much abatement benefit you get from tree farms, centauri reserves, etc. I HAVE finally figured out that you can halt sea level rise if you take enough steps, like changing gov't to green and building a few centauri preserves.

What would really be great would be a screen that summarizes in numerical form the positive and negative impacts you're having on the planet and what the net effect currently is.

But in the mean time, any suggestions on how to better gauge things?
[This message has been edited by Lewsir (edited December 20, 2000).]

	20-12-2000 19:53									#2
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In the city screen for each city you will find the words "Eco damage". If it's high, you're in trouble - if not, you're ok

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The Year 2000 - dawn of the Cheery O's

	20-12-2000 20:36									#3
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I don't think those city screen numbers tell the full story. First of all, you are just one of up to 7 factions and you don't know what kind of impact they are having on the planet. If one of them decided to try to make global warming happen, it would be nice to have a little advance warning and be able to counter act it.

Second, I have a feeling that those city screen numbers don't tell the whole story even about your own impacts on the planet. According to the manual every terraform improvement supposedly has some negative impact on the planet, but you can have a lot of terraform improvements without generating any negative impacts on the city-screen readout. Also, as your planet rating changes, this appears to have a big impact on the ecology, but does it affect your specific city-screen numbers? I'm not sure that it does.

Finally, I've noticed that the city-screen ecology readouts are pretty eratic. They seem to go from 0 to a high number in one turn, and occasionally the other way. Any one know how these numbers are calculated?

	20-12-2000 20:54									#4
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I don't know exactly how these are calculated but Planet rating can make a HUGE impact. last night I was playing and had next to no ecological problems (despite boreholes and crawlered mines). Then i switched to free Market with its massive negative planet rating. In the following 3 turns i saw funcas appear next to about a dozen cities. A check revealed ecology damage ratings as high as 60 IIRC while before switching my highest rating was less than 20.


The energy boost is great but I'm hating seeing all my good terraforming disappear

	20-12-2000 21:11									#5
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I am designing a Dune scenario which I hope to have lots of eco-damage. So far as I know the best way will be to max out mineral production for the AI factions and give them pre-built Genejack Factories, and add boreholes around AI and human bases. Any other suggestions?

I will share any insights I gain from testing the scenario. If anyone is interested in beta-testing the scenario let me know. I'm using the Arrakis map from the Apolyton archive as the starting point.

	21-12-2000 01:54									#6
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The negative impact of terraforming are off set by building tree frams and hybrid forests, though both of them do nothing to curb the impact of large amounts of mineral produced at a base that causes lots of eco damage.

	21-12-2000 02:03									#7
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Of course, you do get a warning that the sea will start rising, so that you can start your pressure domes, or call for a vote to construct a solar shield in order to lower sea level.

Be sure to infiltrate the other factions with probe teams, then through the F4 key you will be able to monitor that faction on a city by city basis, becoming aware of any eco damage, not to mention military strength, SPs, ect.

	21-12-2000 05:08									#8
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I believe the formula for ecodamage is in datalinks somewhere. Obviously boreholes give you the biggest terraforming eco hit and a PB war is far worse.

In single player mode you don't have to worry about it a lot. My experience has been that ecological problems are caused by the human player in at least 90% of all SP games. If you run low or no ecodamage you should not run into trouble unless a couple of the AI factions start lobbing PBs at each other.

	21-12-2000 07:20									#9
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It seems that most people are misunderstanding the poster's question. Lewsir says:

I don't think those city screen numbers tell the full story.

Which is certainly true. The city-by-city ecodamage is only one part of a global ecodamage calculation. Even if all cities are producing 0 ecodamage, you may still be producing global warming. I believe Lewsir's question is, how can one tell 'global' ecodamage, as opposed to city-based ecodamage. Unfortunately, I think the answer is, short of counting every ecodamage-producing terraforming you've made, you can't. Sorry.

	21-12-2000 08:01									#10
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Sigh - something to hope for in civ3/smac2?

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	21-12-2000 14:43									#11
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Thanks folks. Looks like the answer is "there's no way to fully gauge eco-damage in SMAC". Yeah, it would be great to at least have a detailed screen for ecodamage in a future version (or in CIV III). It could then become a much more strategic aspect of gameplay. Factions that are least bothered by mind worm destruction or sea level rise could more easily be aggressive about doing things that screw up the environment.

Not to push my luck, but you could of course add other dimensions of eco damage, such as regular old air pollution that could affect food production rates and even the health of citizens (and make citizen health a factor affecting production and happiness). Doesn't CTP have something like that?

	22-12-2000 01:39									#12
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I think mineral production is much more important than terraforming in terms of global warning, plus palet rating. I have had the AI trigger global warming, especially when playing a green faction (Yang is the most likely culprit --if he gets garland crater or mount palent watch out! Yang will have many small bases that don't cause eco-damage in the base screen, but total planetary mineral production is the critical variable).