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Simpson II
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varies
Jul 2000
time: 05:13
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Hi Weird God,
Welcome to the AC forums! I think you'll find it easier to rise to the top of gameleague playing AC than Civ. Just win one game. 
At least in SMAC (not X) I would say the factions are pretty well balanced. The best players mostly seem to like the PKs and Gaians, take that as you will. Santiago is on many lists as the worst faction, though I think that's because they don't realize the benefits of Elite troops, or how reasonable she can be as a hybrid.
Personally, assuming transcend level, I'd say the University. Their extra drone at size four only counts if there are any content citizens, it doesn't create rowdy drones. However, if you have any specialists, or if you expand aggressively, then the first citizen is a drone regardless and their happiness is completely nominal. The only other downside is the probe score, which is 'masked' by running knowledge. So they have no real disadvantages but huge advantages as a builder, can play hybrid quite well because getting the conquer techs doesn't put them behind in builder techs, and when they get Doc:AP they can launch a devestating and effectively unstopable air-assault aided by nerve-gas. Plus, they can produce their first impact rover only a few turns after the Spartans.
Not that many agree with me, though. 
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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Hi, welcome!
quote:
I think you'll find it easier to rise to the top of gameleague playing AC than Civ. Just win one game.
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....which is more than I've managed to do so far....
I'll say this straight off - I don't like Santiago. Why is this? Well, it's probably because I like to think of myself more as a builder than a fighter, and Santiago is just too slow a starter for me. The -1 Industry hurts a lot, not letting you get your colony pods out straight away, which can be a severe early game handicap....
....but to succeed, Santiago really needs to use her technological edge over the other momentum factions. Because she can prototype units for free, you can use any new weapon which you discover straight away. This can be a huge advantage when it comes to attacking lesser powers, such as the Believers, or the Hive. The morale bcomes a bit of a non-issue later on, as most factions can easily produce elite units anyway with High Morale special ability.
The University. They are a Builder/Hybrid faction, who are the best in the game bar none at tech discovery, but can also fight, where their tech advantage comes in handy. However, probe wars aren't their strong point, so stationing a probe team in each base is often a good idea (unless you have the HSA, which you really should). Their economy is often below average (certainly for a Builder) because of their apparent obsession with technological advance.
Deirdre....a very nice little faction, who really come into their own regarding pod popping early on. Mind worms can be very useful as a counter-play against someone with a tech advantage. But in regular combat, the morale hurts, as it is that much harder to get troops up to elite status. Also, the lack of FM can seriously hamper her economy in mid-game, resulting in slower tech discveries. They are, very much, a Hybrid faction, but not a particularly good one, in my view. Still, many people disagree....
The Peacekeepers are pretty much average. Their only disadvantage is their -1 efficiency, which can be easily overcome with creches and democracy, when it comes up. However, they have several extremely useful social advantages. The best of these is his double votes. Being Planetary Governor is a huge advantage, two reasons - extra trade windfall, and an infiltrator in every faction.
Secondly, they can exceed pop limits by 2. This can buy you extra time to get a hab complex up - don't discount the use of this in tech stag/blind research games.
Also, an extra talent, making it easier to a) control drones, and b) get into golden ages. Golden ages, of course, will give you an extra +1 econ, which takes you to the coveted +2 if you are running wealth, and also +2 growth, which can aid pop booming.
So my favourite faction in original SMAC is probably the Peacekeepers, for those reasons.
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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I'm curious though, why are the Spartans so popular? Is it their military bonus early on (it is quite easy to match with other factions later on)? Is it the free prototypes, which, OK, can be handy, but the industry bonus automatically offsets it, it would seem. So, come on, all you Santiago fanatics, how do you play them, why are they so good?
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HolyWarrior
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If you absolutely want to kick ass in AC, play the Believers! +2 support means you can crank out the military early and blitzkreig. Once you go fundy you're immune to probe teams. Plus you have +25% combat bonus.
If you're worried about inability to research, you just don't get it. What did I tell you about the +2 support and +25% attack? Make Zakharov your puppet and there's no problem. Or send waves of probe teams to liberate research.
In short, the Believers, played right, will eat the Spartans for breakfast. The Brainiacs are too busy fiddling with labs to build a military. The Gaian mindworms can be trouble, but if that happens, just go green and you'll be ok.
And for the Hive...DIE COMMIE BASTARD! DIE YANG DIE!
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Helium Pond
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Los Anheles, California, Good Ole U S of A
Nov 1999
time: 05:13
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The Believers really do kick tail, but I've only played them against AI. I suspect that they'd have serious problems against an astute human opponent. Actually, I played one MP game, two-player, as Believers vs. Spartans, and almost lost. In fact, I would've lost entirely if I hadn't managed to steal D:AP just when he discovered it. But if he'd had just a little more defensive awareness about probe teams, I'd've been sunk.
But let me add two cents for the poor Morgans. As long as you can avoid getting in fights early on, Morgan can be really fun. He's hard to play, but when you get the hang of it, it's just great to have all that cash!
But I wonder if I can bring up another question, which I thought the thread was about before I read it: what is everybody's favorite combination of opponents? I'm assuming SMACX, of course. I haven't played it extensively enough to have an opinion myself, but I wonder what others think? Has anybody tried it with an all-warlike mix, or an all-builder mix? Can you even make an all-builder mix, let's see... UoP, PK, Morgan, Consciousness, Data Angels, and... uh... well, I guess you can't make a strictly-builder-type game. I guess you'd have to add Deirdre, who can be pacifistic. Anyway, what are people's thoughts on the matter?
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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Mis,
I regard the Gaians as being a faction for novices, as many of their advantages are 'there' rather than needing to be made use of. In this way, the +2 efficiency can be a huge boost, however, other factions' efficiency can be gotten over easily enough with planning (and not planned, granted ).
However, to say that they are a good builder faction would be erroneous, in my view: no free market. This is a massive disadvantage, especially in the large bases they have to maintain....
The PKs strength lie in two little words: Planetary Governor. +1 commerce helps the building no end, and the infiltration gives you information on pretty much everything that goes on in the game. This means they can be a successful builder, and warmonger alike. They are the most versatile faction, which is why, as a Builder/Hybrid, I like them.
Favourite opponents, tricky one, assuming this is an SP game, of course, I would have to go for 4 builders (UoP, Morgan, Consciousness, Data Angels) two aliens, and a nasty faction, such as the Hive or the Believers.
Just let me say something else. I don't like Morgan. Players of ACT021 (and lurkers, of which I hope there were none ) will know why - I have to have some sort of military to be able to survive - which isn't always feasible with Morgan. Oh yeah, and I *hate* the support penalty, because it effectively means you can't run Demo until mid-game, when Clean reactors become available.
RedFred, the Believers can be great fun if they are played right, but not really on a huge world. It does take the fun out of it, seeing as you have to make an inter-continental voyage to get near anyone else.
Edit: Just an addition to my earlier post about the Believers - technology. This is dead easy to get around in an SP - the AI factions are frankly to thick to defend against probes. Against decent MP players, however, they should be taken out every time. Before you say anything Garth, I know you kicked my ass with them, but I did say decent MP players
[This message has been edited by mark13 (edited November 01, 2000).]
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Fitz
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& Anarchist
Mar 2000
time: 21:13
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HP: I think my favorite SP game was Morgan vs the Aliens, Cult, Spartans, Hive & Believers on a standard world, 30-50% ocean, high erosion, low cloud cover, high native life, blind research, tech stagnation, aggressive opponents, Transcend. Got my butt kicked too. 
I think I'm going to try that one again.
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Misotu
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Leamington Spa, England
Dec 1999
time: 05:13
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quote:
Originally posted by mark13 on 11-01-2000 05:05 AM
I regard the Gaians as being a faction for novices, as many of their advantages are 'there' rather than needing to be made use of. In this way, the +2 efficiency can be a huge boost, however, other factions' efficiency can be gotten over easily enough with planning (and not planned, granted ).
However, to say that they are a good builder faction would be erroneous, in my view: no free market. This is a massive disadvantage, especially in the large bases they have to maintain....
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I guess that must be why I like them. During my novice period, I find them easy to play. Never mind. I'll move on to more challenging factions as I gain experience
Never underestimate +2 efficiency. And never underestimate the power of penalty-free Planned. I have mashed FM-running factions as the Gaians without lifting a tentacle. You have been warned 
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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Misotu:
OK, so it was a bit of a rash statement - but you know what I mean. The thing about the PKs is that early-mid game, that efficiency hurts. The Gaians, on the other hand, don't have such a disadvantage - one that calls for extra stability, anyway. I suppose that rather than a faction for novices, you could regard them as a 'no-worries' faction - in that they have no inherent factional disadvantages worth mentioning.
The Morganites, OTOH, I would regard as a challenging faction - only one unit suported free per base, and Hab Complexes above size 4. *But* they have some massive economic advantages - they are an awesome faction if played correctly.
[This message has been edited by mark13 (edited November 03, 2000).]
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weird god
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EUROPA
Apr 2000
time: 06:13
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thx again for all your suggestions
i played the gaians and i did well (even though only on 2nd highest level) until midgame. but then all my worms got worthless as the other factions (thx, i didn´t ever thought about bands) started to attack with jets and bombers. i also had big problems with my defence in sea-colonies: whatever unit i built, i got crushed by either jets, rockets or ships (anyone can help?). i got the feeling that the best -and only effective- defence is offence. but all factions were at war with me then, so i had to give up
now i tried the PK. what a faction!! i could destroy, ahem, gaians early and started on a large continent with the monsoon jungle. this rocks i´ve large cities and easily got planet-governer and it seems -again- i´m gonna win this one, yeah! the only problem i have is my neighbour, the aggresive spartans. plus, i´m not first in technology by now. which are your key-techs?
i know these are a lot of questions though i´m a newbie on AC, but i start to love this game after having it for 2 years now. civ2-mp is that addictive, i didn´t had time for this wonderful game by now.
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mankind made alcohol, god made weed.....whom do you trust?
weird god, chief of EUROPA
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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No disrespect, but if you start in the Monsoon Jungle any faction rocks....
Key techs?
There are a lot of them, but just to outline.....
Early game:
The first tech you should research, ALWAYS - Centauri Ecology. This gives you Formers, which you *need* from early on....
If you are on the offensive, beeline for Nonlinear Maths - Applied Physics and Information Networks required for that.
If you are a builder, go for Industrial Automation - this gives you crawlers which are critical to your mineral and energy production.
Mid-game: D:AP, for obvious reasons, and Fusion Power, for the fusion reactor. MMI also, for choppers....also, it is a good idea to go for the good armor techs - Silksteel Alloys is the first - the others will come.
After that, I pretty much take it as it comes - I don't have too much late-game experience, so there are people better placed to answer this than me...
Always happy to help - once you feel you are experienced enough you might want to try our PBEM tournament - great fun!
Mark13
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VoodooChild
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Atlanta, Ga. USA
Aug 2000
time: 05:13
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*slaps Mark13 for missing one of the bigest techs*
Bio. Eng. for the clean special ability (unit requires no support from home base)
Overall it is better to attack than to defend, but reguardless on your playing style or situation you need to know how to defend.
In the early game your biggest threat is going to be worms. Upgrade your garrison units with trace (+50% def vs psi combat) when you get Secrets of the Brain. After Air powers comes available, equip all your garrison units with AAA. These two upgrades will be just about the most important things you can do for -basic- defense.
From mid point on just about anything goes for combat, and you will be faced with all sorts of tactics. Keep playing the game, and test different things and learn from your mistakes.
Some of my rules of thumb are. Use copters to attack not bombers. Use planes (interceptors) to defend. Also don't put armor on aircraft. When two planes meet their armor is their weapon value. The only time armor matters on a plane is if they are the last defender of a base, and you should never allow this to happen, since it almost always ends in the destruction of your vital air assets.
If you are behind in tech or are even but can't produce at the same rate as your opponent, go with PSI units (mindworms etc.) PSI combat uses its own set of rules, and most of that fancy weapons and armor wont mean a thing when going up against a mindworm, so the scales are more even than if you attacked or defended with a regular unit. If you have better weapons and armor, use the advantage to crush your opposition.
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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To be honest, I don't put that much emphasis on Bio Engineering, although, yes, I should have put it down. One of the reasons may be that I don't play Morgan too often, so I don't get hampered by continuous support problems....
Copters should be used to attack in most cases, although their chronic lack of range is a severe problem - if you have a base within 6 spaces, great - otherwise use needlejets. Unless, of course, you can get a couple of formers closer and get an airbase constructed. But don't put too many resources into this - it is a last resort only! (IMO)
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Natan
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New York State
Sep 2000
time: 00:13
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quote:
Originally posted by mark13 on 11-02-2000 07:21 AM
Natan, I believe there is one very significant factor you have overlooked (or not known about) when playing the Hive - it is virtually impossible to pop boom. Although the +1 growth certainly helps early game - it becomes increasingly ineffective later on due to your inability to go democracy. This means you will have to run Planned, have a Creche and a GA (very diff. with the Hive, due to the -2 econ) to effectively pop boom. This is one of the reasons I can't get on with the Hive, I like to think myself more of a builder than a fighter.
[This message has been edited by mark13 (edited November 02, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by mark13 (edited November 02, 2000).]
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I've never had a problem with this, although admittedly, I only play SP. But the Hive was the only faction I could win with on transcend. The growth and industry really help early on, they allow you to build many colony pods, and develop a military to grab the best city sites. The ability to run police state and planned without penalty basically doubles your original bonuses, and then adds some. Every other faction I tried on Transcend would get mashed by the Hive, or destroyed very early on.
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mark13
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Northampton, England
Sep 2000
time: 05:13
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Natan,
I can understand what you mean, faction preferences depend fully on your playing style. The Hive is a truly devastating momentum faction, although they do suffer from some chronic builder penalties, which makes them a very aggressive faction. The growth and industry does indeed help a lot early on, although the inability to run demo hinders mid-game development, as does the -2 economy. This will mean a technological disadvantage, which can easily be overcome in one of two ways (in SP):
- Use probes to fish out the technology you need
- Overcome the penalty with sheer numbers.
However, against any half-decent human player, you will have difficulties.
Mark13
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Natan
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New York State
Sep 2000
time: 00:13
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quote:
Originally posted by mark13 on 11-05-2000 09:28 AM
Natan,
I can understand what you mean, faction preferences depend fully on your playing style. The Hive is a truly devastating momentum faction, although they do suffer from some chronic builder penalties, which makes them a very aggressive faction. The growth and industry does indeed help a lot early on, although the inability to run demo hinders mid-game development, as does the -2 economy. This will mean a technological disadvantage, which can easily be overcome in one of two ways (in SP):
- Use probes to fish out the technology you need
- Overcome the penalty with sheer numbers.
However, against any half-decent human player, you will have difficulties.
Mark13
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I've found that with enough bases, the Hive can out-research even the University in SP, even on transcend level. If I ever did MP, I would pick a different faction for sure.
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Helium Pond
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Los Anheles, California, Good Ole U S of A
Nov 1999
time: 05:13
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So, mark13, what would your advice be to some poor human player who just happened to get stuck with the Hive, in case there was some theoretical tournament game in which someone might possibly have gotten that faction?
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31-10-2000 06:25
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