11-01-2003 05:52									#1
	Presidency Campaign Thread Got spare money?

Aggie and Arnelos, make yourselves comfortable... Here, have a seat...
Post your platforms here.

	11-01-2003 08:44									#2
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Hmm... Nobody seems to be taking this thread seriously... But it is! If you have any questions, please post here. The real candidates will be happy in answer (even me! ).

	11-01-2003 11:25									#3
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All: Do you have any plans to streamline turnchats during wartime?

Aro: Will being president affect your ability to conjure maps?

Aggie: Will you institute ARMS into policy therefore creating FEAR?

	11-01-2003 15:27									#4
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(In Yoda's voice) FEAR leads to ANGER. ANGER leads to HATE. HATE leads to SUFFERING.

	11-01-2003 16:23									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber (In Yoda's voice) FEAR leads to ANGER. ANGER leads to HATE. HATE leads to SUFFERING.

Is that a problem for our zealots ?

	11-01-2003 16:41									#6
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Still waiting for the actual campaign to begin. I still don't know who to vote for! PANIC!!

	11-01-2003 19:50									#7
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quote: Originally posted by nz_upy All: Do you have any plans to streamline turnchats during wartime?

No, not at all... I can't see how we could streamline turnchats without cut the fun. But I would like to nominate a Legal Counselor to attend turnchats, to avoid all those interruptions and violations of the CoL. "Sorry, guys, I can't do nothing until I talk with my lawyer!"

quote: Originally posted by nz_upy Aro: Will being president affect your ability to conjure maps?

No, I'll do the maps in the same way... After the turnchats. Hey, gimme a couple of hours!

Important note: IMO, the other candidates are better choices for the job, both with a lot of experience and the necessary skill. But if you want "a new perspective", you should vote for me...

	12-01-2003 00:49									#8
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quote: Originally posted by nz_upy All: Do you have any plans to streamline turnchats during wartime?

How about not have wars?

Ok, ok, fat chance of that.

Seriously, the thing that would speed up warchats the most is something that is going to happen on its own within the next 2 turns: being done with all tile improvements in the entire empire aside from German annexation areas. Without having to spend rediculous amounts of time on Public Works, turns are going to get shorter on their own.

As it regards the military, however, that ball is really in the SMC's court. In a warchat, the President is really just executing the orders he gets from the SMC. Whether the SMC takes a long time or whether he takes a short time is largely determined by the situation. Sometimes there's a lot of information to process and figure out a logical move from that and sometimes is just intuitive what needs to be done.

quote: Aggie: Will you institute ARMS into policy therefore creating FEAR?

I'm not Aggie, but I think Aggie needs to answer questions like these. Saying that he plans to rule the nation as an undisputed despot and curtail civil rights for the populace in role-play is one thing, but when you run for President, you really have to take things more seriously.

I have made it abundantly clear that I will not knowingly violate either the Constitution or any laws passed by the Senate. It is my view that if we allow our laws to be violated out of convenience, we've removed the incentive to CHANGE stupid laws. The difference of opinion between Aggie and myself as regards Senate meetings and what would allow them to have legal force is illustrative on this point.

As President, I would follow the letter as well as the spirit of the law. The right of the Senate to make the decisions it is legally vested with the power to make will not be infringed upon. The most you'll get out of me will be the legal and appropriate (and in the future, timely!) use of the veto power in situations that call for it.

I have the patience to allow the Senate to do its business before I do mine. I fully understand that a lot of people get very upset when, in the process of this DEMOCRACY GAME, their right to help make major decisions on behalf of the nation is assaulted. I have been willing in the past and will continue to be willing to even get the "we can't stop the chat, we should never stop a chat!" people pissed off at me for ending a chat early because the Senate has a right to make a critical decision.

In short...

I will be a patient, responsible, and democratically accountable leader of our nation.

I believe that service in the past, as Vice President, Foreign Affairs Minister, and President all serves as testimony on that account.

Thank You.

	12-01-2003 00:57									#9
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I seriously doubt that Aggie would violate the Constitution and such. It's just RP.

	12-01-2003 05:12									#10
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He is using Aggie to boost his own chances at President.
What a sly guy.

	12-01-2003 05:55									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by nz_upy All: Do you have any plans to streamline turnchats during wartime? Aggie: Will you institute ARMS into policy therefore creating FEAR?

These are fair questions and ones that need to be answered.
First will I try to streamline chats. Arnelos made a good point, just having the pw done will save much time. Also I intend to introduce the running turn into this term. What this means is I will generally do the FAM and DM orders and send the save to the SMC for his moves during the week. Maybe we can issue orders say on tuesday and spend the rest of the week doing the 5 turns. On the weekend I plan on a normal chat. I believe this will help the game move along.
Second as much as I enjoyed being the prophet I do differentiate rp and the game. I might bring such idea's into a situation that is already happening, but I will not let it dictate policy. Remember we are a democracy, not a theocracy.
I also urge all people to remember that I have always and will always consider the people's will when I make decisions. My desire is to move the game along and I will continue to do this, however I will not do it at the price of democracy. I show as an example the current senate meeting that was just ended. That meeting both kept the game going and also allowed the people's voice to be heard. In the future such meeting will have an earlier announcement and absentee time to ensure broader participation. For the record, it has been implied that on this issue I knowingly went against the constitution. This is not the case I did ask at least one member of the court his opinion of the action before it was done. I was informed that it is a grey area. That being so I decided to attempt this plan. If the court rules it wrong we have lost nothing, because we are where we would have been anyway. But if approved this will have advanced the game. We risked nothing for a gain, seems reasonable to me. Also remember I have always tried to reach out and make a concensus for our future moves and have always made sure all sides were consulted.
Aggie

	12-01-2003 06:38									#12
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quote: Remember we are a democracy, not a theocracy.

Not for long! Mwa! Ha! Ha!



Btw, eloquent reasoning for the chat today.

What are all of your opinions as far as Emergency Powers for the President? (as is currently being discussed in the pre-amendment thread)

	12-01-2003 07:10									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Thud Not for long! Mwa! Ha! Ha! Btw, eloquent reasoning for the chat today. What are all of your opinions as far as Emergency Powers for the President? (as is currently being discussed in the pre-amendment thread)

Shhhhs Thud, how did you find out that I was going to replace governors with high priest., You found me out.

As far as emergency powers go I am eager to see how the amendment sets up, as long as the people's voice is heard it those powers could be useful. but remember the purpose of the constitution is to protect us from unjust rulers, so we must keep this in mind in any such amendment to prevent abuse.
Aggie

	12-01-2003 20:28									#14
	Tired of ads?

Two questions for the candidates:

1. Which civilizations would you support a war against?

2. What method of victory would you like to achieve?

	12-01-2003 21:52									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Jonny Two questions for the candidates: 1. Which civilizations would you support a war against? 2. What method of victory would you like to achieve?

I would support a war against England and a country whose cities would not be corrupt, this is dependent on palace location. For example if the new palace is in Macross we should go to war with greece. If on the other hand the palace is located else where, say further s and e, then we could perhaps go for the wonders in russia and punish rome and bablyon. Basically where we go to war depends on palace location. In addition we should punish zulu for their crimes against us, additionally by taking the gems and holding them to ourselves we weaken the rest of the world.
I support a space race victory and that is my goal. A diplomatic victory is also possible and regardless we need the un to ensure that we don't lose by that method.
Aggie

	13-01-2003 01:41									#16
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Arnelos, how do you feel about Aggie's plan (if he's elected) to hand the save file over to the SMC? Do you see any advantages, disadvantages in that? Do you see it as a method you may try to use with the newly elected SMC?

	13-01-2003 08:24									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Jonny Two questions for the candidates: 1. Which civilizations would you support a war against? 2. What method of victory would you like to achieve?

1- England or Greece, later Russia. Zulus, for sure, and the Chinese. Aggie pointed the way. What a hell, we'll destroy everyone in our way (and probably everyone out of our way too...). War has been our natural environment for millenniums (millennia?). Be honest, boys, you're loving this!

2- Well, I don't expect win in a diplomatic way... Therefore, we must build the UN.
Anyway, with Hoover will be easy to build our spaceship.

Note- I'm not a great player (and even worst as writer ). In fact, I'm a lousy one. I don't know anything about strategy and micromanagement... Who cares? The ministers, the Senate and the Court will play the game, as always. And that's why I will nominate a legal advisor... If I win (not likely ) . The main goal is keep the Cabinet and me away from legal troubles. Are you interested, AdaMada?
After all, I'll just push buttons and click the mouse...
So... Aggie and Arnelos... Is up to you, guys.

quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Arnelos, how do you feel about Aggie's plan (if he's elected) to hand the save file over to the SMC? Do you see any advantages, disadvantages in that? Do you see it as a method you may try to use with the newly elected SMC?

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer: Great plan! I'll vote for Aggie...

	13-01-2003 09:06									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Aro You didn't ask me, but I'll answer: Great plan! I'll vote for Aggie...

Sorry Aro!

	13-01-2003 13:53									#19
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Please note that my ISP has been down since late Saturday. My sincere apologies on not responding to questions until now. My ISP is back up (finally!), but it's atrociously slow .

quote: Originally posted by Jonny Two questions for the candidates: 1. Which civilizations would you support a war against? 2. What method of victory would you like to achieve?

I am aiming for a Space Race victory, as I have argued for in numerous threads. I believe a space race victory would be the most fitting end to our game and the victory most able to symbolically reward the accomplishments of our great nation and the many people who have aided its growth and prosperity over the ages.

In terms of wars, my priorities concerning wars flow from my priority concerning the preferred victory condition. I would not support wars that will merely waste resources better spent on the space race. I would not support wars that would take over territory distant from Apolyton and the Forbidden City and thus cost more in corruption, maintenance expences, and war costs than we would ever make back in income or even luxuries.

Translating that, the only nation I can realistically see us taking over at this point would be England. And even a war with England would, if we are interested in the national interest here, wait until AFTER we have completed a significant period of peaceful industrialization. We have been too distracted by the current war effort since discovering such technologies as industrialization in order to industrialize properly and take advantage of the boost that could give us.

All of this said, however, the President ultimately has a somewhat minimal input on decisions of war and peace, nevermind victory conditions.

	13-01-2003 13:59									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Arnelos, how do you feel about Aggie's plan (if he's elected) to hand the save file over to the SMC? Do you see any advantages, disadvantages in that? Do you see it as a method you may try to use with the newly elected SMC?

There are pros and cons to this.

PRO: It might help speed things up a bit.

CON: It would defeat the purpose of having a turnchat, which exists primarily so that a broader spectrum of people can be present for major decisions and offer some form of input.

I'll grant that it takes 3 hours to complete a single turn of warfare and I personally detest that it takes that long, but I fear that much would be lost by not doing our warturns via chats. It might be workable to have the President hand off the save to the SMC mid-turn during each turn of the chat so that we cut down on the need for spending time communicating orders between the SMC and the President (and this would actually be quite workable), but having the SMC go off and do all his stuff without keeping in touch with others present for the chat wouldn't really be something a lot of people would like or would be in the interests of the nation.

As much as it's annoying to many an SMC that they get feedback from citizens present in the chat, it really has helped on several occassions to create wiser government policy.

	13-01-2003 14:52									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

If you still care about this game, vote for Arnelos. At this point, it's really that simple.

If you need this illustrated, however, it might be helpful to outline what each candidate in this race has said in the nomination thread regarding their original intentions behind running for office...

-------------------------------

GodKing started the idea of the President being the dictator in this next election with...

quote: Originally posted by GodKing I would be willing to do so and be prez if, and only if, nobody else wants to do it. If I am it, there will be NO turnchats. If I am it, any missing minister orders I will make judgements, and issue either my own or halt the game. I will, in essance, be a petty dictator, doing what I want, how I want, when I want, and so forth. That doesn't mean I will intentionally brake any laws or violate the reasoning behind having the demo-game. It just means that I will run it like a person who isn't going to put up with a lot of crap. If I have a VP who is willing, they will be more than welcome to play the game as a chat every now and then. Because of how I know I will run this, I strongly advise someone else to run. I would much rather stay a justice for this month. GK

Aggie, jumping on the idea of being "dictator", posting the following...

quote: Originally posted by Aggie If no one else wants to be prez, I would consider it, but it would be much the same araingement GK mentioned, except we would have about 1 turnchat a week on the weekends. but during the week we would have a turnthread. Gernerally it would be in the form of a continually moving turn. I'd play when I could a turn post the results and then would do the next turn after input(particularly for the SMC, since the other orders could be done ahead of time). Aggie

A page or so later, the first post by Aro...

quote: Originally posted by Aro As a matter of fact, no one is running for Prez right now. Panag didn't accepted yet, the same with Arnelos and Aggie. If this continues, I'll run for the office myself! It's a menace!

Then, Aro posted again:

quote: Originally posted by Aro Hehe... As everybody here knows, I'm just kidding. Do you have any idea about how much time a normal turnchat (2~6 hours) could last in my hands? Figure this: I'll be reading the orders in English, translating in my head, thinking in Portuguese, translating, talking with you guys in English, rinse, repeat... sloooowly! 4~10 hours, at a conservative estimate! All this supposing I’ll not do many mistakes… If I run, Banana will wins. I’ll be ashamed forever.

To remove confusion, and my understanding of the complete lack of any remotely serious candidates:

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos I am hereby running for President I have already begun my checking for Vice Presidential candidates and Domestic Minister candidates (one of each at this point). If I can get someone to run for Domestic Minister, I'll do it. As for other things, I have no problem with Shiber as FAM (I've been trying to get him to run for something for 3 terms now ) or even Meshelic as SMC (though we'll have to watch him closely ).

Aro, as a jest to provoke panag, suggested that he could run with panag...

quote: Originally posted by Aro Panag, do you want to run? If so, I'll run too! Just for fun... and to give Arnelos some fight.

After two cryptic panag posts, Aro decided to throw his hat in...

quote: Originally posted by Aro Well... Boys, put our names in the hat! We (Panag and me) are in the race for the presidency! Man, I hope I can get at least two electors: Arnelos and me.

Then, Aggie tentatively announced he might be running...

quote: Originally posted by Aggie Tentatively I announce my candidacy for president, its been awhile since we had a contested presidential election and I couldn't ask for anymore excellent opponents. Aggie

-------------------------------

So, to tally up...

1. The basis of Aro's candidacy is a joke (he stated himself on multiple occassions that his candidacy was not serious) rather than a serious bid for the position.

2. The basis of Aggie's candidacy is GodKing's suggestion that the President need not hold turnchats and that the President might as well just act as the petty dictator of the whole nation rather than being swayed by popular sentiment or potentially annoying legalities. If anyone else were running, we might assume this was just a joke as well. But given that the only reason this guy WASN'T impeached for violating the law last term was that he was already leaving office, we have to take this a little more seriously.

3. The basis of Arnelos' candidacy is really a reaction to the two of the above and a vote to keep the democracy in the democracy game. (1) I'm actually serious about running, (2) I've said I'll actually fill the job description, and, by far most importantly, (3) I've made it clear through both word and action that I have a respect for this democracy.

So, if you still care about this democracy game (I know there are still some of you out there!), vote for me. If not, my opponents seem to be offering enough alternatives to suit your tastes.

I may not enjoy running 6-hour turnchats, but at least I still care enough to do the job right.

	13-01-2003 15:18									#22
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Next thing you know one of us Senators will be asked to submit a vote of "no-confidence", granting emergency powers to....*cough* *cough* Ack sorry

	13-01-2003 16:02									#23
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I've just posted this in the election thread...

quote: Originally posted by Arnelos ...So, to tally up... 1. The basis of Aro's candidacy is a joke (he stated himself on multiple occassions that his candidacy was not serious) rather than a serious bid for the position. ... ...I may not enjoy running 6-hour turnchats, but at least I still care enough to do the job right.

The fact is, the basis of all we're doing here it's a joke (just try to explain all that Apolytonian stuff to your wife, or girlfriend, family, boss, roommates, friends... The answer will be "are you kidding me?" in most cases... ). And fun. Even so, we still care enough to do the job right...

quote: Originally posted by Meshelic ...You've got Arnelos, politician extraordinare...

You're definitely right, Mesh!

	13-01-2003 16:28									#24
	Suffering from ads?

Look, if people who are playing in this so called "democracy game" have decided that they really just don't want to have a democracy anymore or a game, that's fine. It will give me some spare time on my weekends.

If you guys still want to have a game and still have it be a democracy game though, I remain your only viable candidate.

This happens to be the reason why I'm in the race. I honestly do not believe that either of my opponents is serious about fulfilling the job description of President and keeping this democracy game around.

Aro doesn't seem to be serious about the race AT ALL.

Aggie is serious about being President alright, he's just not serious about playing by the rules or fulfilling his duties.

If either of these guys (or someone else) had made a convincing case in the nomination thread that they were serious about the office, I wouldn't be running. I've had my term. I'm running, in truth, because neither of them ever seriously entered the race (and they still haven't...).

	13-01-2003 17:25									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well... I don't look serious, but I am...

	13-01-2003 17:46									#26
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

hi ,

Aro there is plenty of food here for some graphics in a special newspaper edition , ....

and ones again , panag does not run for preseident , VP why not , but not P , ....

the best government for our immediate future would be to keep the one we have right now (!)

have a nice election day

	13-01-2003 17:53									#27
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , ...Aro there is plenty of food here for some graphics in a special newspaper edition , .... have a nice election day

For sure!

	13-01-2003 23:38									#28
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Meshelic Next thing you know one of us Senators will be asked to submit a vote of "no-confidence", granting emergency powers to....*cough* *cough* Ack sorry

Hey, Palpatine was elected because he was an honest guy. Besides, he loves democracy, he said so himself. Its just that law and order and all were more important...

	13-01-2003 23:40									#29
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EDIT: Ack! Double post!

	14-01-2003 00:42									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Thud Hey, Palpatine was elected because he was an honest guy. Besides, he loves democracy, he said so himself. Its just that law and order and all were more important...

True true, he was a good guy, if you don't count all the dark lord of the jedi stuff he was doing on the side...

Be wary of the talented politicians.