11-01-2003 19:58									#1
	This has been a problem for a long time Support Apolyton

My capital of Orleans is in a seemingly unsolvable problem - it's size 22 but is only producing 43 food (one less than is needed.) I cannot do anything, as it has control over all of its squares (I can't "shift" squares between surrounding cities) and all of its squares that can be irrigated, are irrigated. The city will go through a starvation cycle (one person will die, therefore making three food available, one will be born, starting everything over again!)

I have a Granary there, but it makes no difference.

Can anyone offer suggestions?

	11-01-2003 20:04									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

you have railroads yet? pillage an irrigated/railroaded square, this will lower the food production by one. if not, pillage the irrigation on one square.

	11-01-2003 20:09									#3
	Support Apolyton

I guess that's my only option, but I wish somehow this wouldn't happen in the first place. You should be able to ship food from one city to another! They allow convoys to do that in SMAC!

	11-01-2003 20:12									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

i know what you mean, otherwise, cities in the midwest (US) would have millions upon millions of people...

	11-01-2003 20:32									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

In future versions of Civ you should be able to connect cities to create food pools, at least in the late game.

	11-01-2003 20:38									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

or make a simple solution:

If a city has all squares and has only one food more than required, then the city can't grow

This kills the problem a simple way, but doesn't kill the population

	11-01-2003 23:42									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Or just let things stay as they are. It's not like it's affecting the gameplay in any way

On a side note. Why do you allow your cities to overlap. I have always found that it poses unwanted limits on city growth.

Asmodean

	12-01-2003 00:52									#8
	Full PM-box? Change here!

"On a side note. Why do you allow your cities to overlap. I have always found that it poses unwanted limits on city growth."

I agree with you in a way, but, overall, you will then have wasted space. In my (huge map) game, I have the cities in a nice grid pattern, but now, since the cities are exactly 4 squares away from the adjacent square (if that makes sense) i've got a 2x2 useless land area. So, where individual cities are more productive this way, your empire as a whole will be weaker, in terms of used space. but i personally prrefer your method.

	12-01-2003 02:33									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I always try and optimize my city placement to make the best use of resources. I try and spread wheat, cattle, game etc among 2 cities if possible, because I would rather have 2 cities grow large than one large and one medium. This strategy sometimes requires overlapping. You just have to monitor city square use and rearrange workers to balance advantage.

	13-01-2003 05:39									#10
	Suffering from ads?

If you have a mined grassland, plant a forest on it. This will reduce the food production by 1.

Ithaca Mike

	13-01-2003 05:44									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by justjake73 I guess that's my only option, but I wish somehow this wouldn't happen in the first place. You should be able to ship food from one city to another! They allow convoys to do that in SMAC!

Another reason why SMAC is alot better. And why it makes more sense.

The IMPORTATION of food from distant places is another important real aspect of "civilization" the game disregards.

	13-01-2003 14:48									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

oh yea gods, how hard is it to implement OLD ideas for good OLD games into the new games?

	13-01-2003 17:43									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I always overlap my cities a lot. If you space your cities so loosely that they don't overlap at all, you will have LOTS of unworked tiles for most of the game. Remember that you get your cities above size 12 only after the game has been more or less decided. It makes much more sense to have 3 good size 6 cities 0 AD, 3 good size 10 cities at 1000 AD and 3 average size 16 cities in 1500 AD than using the same space 1 good size 6 city in 0 AD, 1 good size 12 city in 1000 AD and 1 very good size 30 city in 1500 AD.

	13-01-2003 19:21									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

More overlapping also makes defence easier and decrease distance-based corruption.

	14-01-2003 01:09									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

When faced with this problem, I usually just draft or build a worker. Repeat as necessary.

	14-01-2003 01:57									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Hurricane:

I agree. Also, don't forget that distance is part of the corruption formula.

	14-01-2003 03:38									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Let's hope the next civ will draw some more things from SMAC then

	14-01-2003 05:48									#18
	Suffering from ads?

yea alot of things back

	14-01-2003 07:02									#19
	Tired of ads?

Hurricane's strategy is sound. Since you can't get over a population of 12 in the first 3/4 of a standard game, you should pack denser.

	14-01-2003 08:56									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

I liked the convoy units in SMAC. It would really hurt when jets would sink my convoy ships bringing food to my cities.

	14-01-2003 10:04									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

DEAR GOD, what a lot of philosophizing!!

Let's answer the question.

Jake, mine one of your tiles so that you achieve 'yellow' growth status, i.e., balanced at no growth and no starvation.

	14-01-2003 14:59									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Theseus DEAR GOD, what a lot of philosophizing!! Let's answer the question. Jake, mine one of your tiles so that you achieve 'yellow' growth status, i.e., balanced at no growth and no starvation.

This is actually not a correct answer, since he has all squares railroaded. Mining an irrigated and railroaded tile will reduce the food by 2, not 1.

To reduce the food by one, he can remove the railroad from an irrigated square, or plant forest on a mined grassland.

But, IMHO a much better solution for future games is to pack the cities closer, as other has argued. Since you will have maximum 12 citizens for most of the important parts of the game, there is little reason to give each city much more than 12 squares each.

	14-01-2003 16:55									#23
	Suffering from ads?

Limited city-size will also have the advantage of lower pollution in the late game as of the pollution are caused by city size.