11-01-2003 20:02									#1
	The Italian Anthem is NOT the Italian Anthem Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

A Deputy of the National Alliance Party have just proposed a bill which will make definitive the adoption of the "Fratelli d'Italia" song and music as the official Anthem for the Italian Repubblic. (click here if you want to read the text of the anthem).

What was discovered was that an old law of the 1946 made the song a provisory anthem for Italy, which would be used only for the military.

This will make happy Totti and the other football players which can not sing the anthem during World Cup matches, even after the President himself gifted them a copy of the text, and this will please also the Northern League Party, which would like a more northern-like anthem such as "Va Pensiero" of Verdi.

Now I just wonder if the law will manage to be approved, otherwise Italy would be the first and only country to be without an anthem.

http://www.ilnuovo.it/nuovo/foglia/...,165974,00.html

Saluti

	11-01-2003 20:04									#2
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VA PENSIERO!

	11-01-2003 20:08									#3
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Oh Bella Ciao is the anthem of Italy.

	11-01-2003 20:14									#4
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Ok, so I'm in a revolutionary mood

	11-01-2003 20:22									#5
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Oh Bella Ciao is the anthem of Italy.

That would make me change nationality in the very moment it is approved

Saluti

	11-01-2003 20:37									#6
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quote: This will make happy Totti and the other football players which can not sing the anthem during World Cup matches, even after the President himself gifted them a copy of the text,

why?

	11-01-2003 20:45									#7
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Because they are so stupid they couldn't even memorize a few verses

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	11-01-2003 20:57									#8
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On the subject of Italy

This just in. The Genovese police planted evidence - in this case molotov cocktails- when raiding a protester sleeping quarters during the G8 summit in 2000 in Genova. According to the source, a leading police officer, it was not on initiative of a lone policeman - but a planned action by highranking officers within the intellegince service to discredit the student protesters in wake of the killing of one protester by the police.
In the days prior to the summit various italian politicians paid visits to the police officers offering them 'moral' support, most prominently among them vicepremier
Gianfranco Fini of the neofascist party Alleanza Nazionale. Witnesses claim he said the government would back them in using illegal means.

	11-01-2003 21:16									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc most prominently among them vicepremier Gianfranco Fini of the neofascist party Alleanza Nazionale. Witnesses claim he said the government would back them in using illegal means.

Which website did you use as your source.

I mean, someone who say something like this does not even worth to be answered.

Plus... why are you threadjacking one of the very few threads that I started ??

Saluti

	11-01-2003 21:16									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc On the subject of Italy This just in. The Genovese police planted evidence - in this case molotov cocktails- when raiding a protester sleeping quarters during the G8 summit in 2000 in Genova. According to the source, a leading police officer, it was not on initiative of a lone policeman - but a planned action by highranking officers within the intellegince service to discredit the student protesters in wake of the killing of one protester by the police. In the days prior to the summit various italian politicians paid visits to the police officers offering them 'moral' support, most prominently among them vicepremier Gianfranco Fini of the neofascist party Alleanza Nazionale. Witnesses claim he said the government would back them in using illegal means.

Yep,
and there has also been Evidence,
that some of the violent Protestors had Contact to the Police Oficers, just before the Outbreaks of Violence started, so it may be possible, that they were instructed by the Police, to start the riots.
There is also evidence that one Hostel housed a lot of armed Protestors, which . The Hostel warden alarmed the police about the circumstance, that his guests were armed and started to demolish the furniture of his hostel. But no Policemen appeared at eht hostel until the end of the G8 summit.
Only long after the Summit some policemen appeared, but at this point the armed protestors had already left.

btw.
my source is a report which was shown on German Television

	11-01-2003 21:34									#11
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I'm not saying there weren't some strange things, everybody could see that on TV but you can't say it was only the Policemen faults. Neither that the police made deals with the violent groups, or that the politicians were backing those groups.
After what happened many people resigned or were forced to resign from their positions, but this was because of their ineptitude, not because they were doing illegal deals with the violents.

The Police acted slowly, and was not able to control all of the protestors, but doesn't mean that they didn't control the violents on purpouse... I mean most of the policemen were actually yound boys that were doing their compulsory military service (something i'll have to do too in a few years) so they completely lacked any experience, and nobody expected such a big violent protest, and this was the main reason why many people had to resign, and this was off course their biggest mistake.

Saluti

	11-01-2003 22:01									#12
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I TOLD YOU SO!

	11-01-2003 22:05									#13
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You should´ve seen the Report (it was shown on ARD which is a renowned TV Station here in Germany).
Maybe, you would think different after seeing it.

As for the Incident in the Sleeping Quarters which was mentioned by TripleDoc, there were two Molotov Cocktails, which were later used to justoify the PoliceAction at the quarter, cos it was said, they have been found there.
But some days or weeks afterward those Molotov Cocktails which were said to be found in the sleeping Quarters were recognized by another Police Officer as Molotov Cocktails, which were found some time earlier at the summit during another Police Raid (and of course those Molotov Cocktails had mysteriously disappeared prior to the Raid on the Sleeping Quarters).

Another thing were TV Shootings, where some black clad Protestors with Iron Bars casually went to the Command Van of some Police Forces, talked to the Officers in Command and then went again to their fellow Protestors.
Some minutes afterwards those Protestors instigates a violent riot.

Thats only a small part of those things, which were shown in the report and as the reporters confronted higher ranking Officials with those things, they didn´t want to comment on them.

	11-01-2003 22:08									#14
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A friend of an acquentance went to Genova.

She said that she run inside an empty building to get away from the tear gas and there she saw two "protesters" taking off their hoods, putting them in bags and start wearing their police uniforms.

That is what she said, anyway.

	11-01-2003 22:21									#15
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Why don't they just shoot every protester! It would be much easier!

And Tripledoc, you're a ****ing communist *******- there's not a single true thing in your post

	11-01-2003 22:26									#16
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Fez?

	11-01-2003 22:34									#17
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Proteus... what you say might even be true....

But there is one think lacking to support those views... why in the world the police officers had to instigate other people to destroy the city????
The Police surely did not gained from it, so I really can not believe that a high police officer told to some protestor to start a violent riot.

About the Sleeping Quarters events... well many many things were said, many other were shown on TV and on the internet, there is clearly not a unique version, and the few I read were either something painting the policemen had blood-thirsty evil monster, or heroes who fought bravely trying to push those evil anarchist out of the city.

My personal opinion is that the police went there, hoping to find some of the violents, once they entered inside someone started a fight, and it ended up with that "massacre".

Obviously this is only my personal opinion, which is something in the middle of the many versions of that event which I eiether heard or read.

About those molotov cocktails, well I did not know about that, so i can not really say anything, but if you both say that, I have to believe you.

Saluti

	11-01-2003 22:46									#18
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Why would the police do it? What did they have to gain? For the same reason police have been doing this for centuries? To descredit the movement and to arrest the leaders. Look at how bad the Genoa riots made the movement appear. Now politicians have the excuse to keep their meetings away from the public, now police have the excuse to spy on activists and arrest them even before the protest. The police and the politicians gained a lot, even at the cost of a city.

The movement was growing by leaps and bounds, and few in the West suspected that 9/11 was coming and would bring the movement to a screaching halt. Police start violence at protests, not protestors. Hell, this should be in a seperate thread so idjits like Asher can read it.

	11-01-2003 22:48									#19
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About the young man who was killed by the police.
Was he specifically targeted? I heard that he was the son of a labour union leader in Genova. Is that true?

Also you really don't have to kill every protester to put the fear into people. One is enough to make a potential protester think once or twice about protesting again.

	11-01-2003 22:52									#20
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Bullshit again- he was just some hooligan who got what he deserved after burning dozens of parked cars and attempting to smash a cop's head with a fire extinguisher

	11-01-2003 22:57									#21
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He was the son of a labor union organizer. I don't think he was targetted specifically, but on the other hand, he didn't need to be killed. Cops shouldn't have started something they couldn't control.

	11-01-2003 23:01									#22
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About the protester who was killed... I have to say a few things

He surely was not a peaceful protester:

How many peaceful protester go around with their face covered.... in July

He was (together with others) assaulting a police car:

As clearly shown in this picture



Than again, most of the policemen sent there were young boys who were doing their compulsory military service, and completely lacked experience, and training for such a situation.

The young policeman who shoted was one of them, if he was a veteran he would have probably remained calm.

Anyway... surely not he was not targeted.
And yes it was a tragic incedent, a young policeman that should have not have been there, and a protester that was about to throw that big red thing into the police car.

Saluti

	11-01-2003 23:03									#23
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That big red thing is a fire extinguisher. Oooh, scary.

	11-01-2003 23:08									#24
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I just didn't know the english name!

and yes... if someone is about to throw a fire extinguisher against you, and you have a gun in your hand, how would you react.

Remember you don't have time to "think".

Surely if the young policeman had time to think on what to do, he would have never shooted, but he didn't have time, and he shooted, he probably did not even aimed, and he was so unlucky that he just happened to hit him.

Saluti

	11-01-2003 23:16									#25
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I'd have been much more concerned about the guy shoving a board at me.

But my previous comment still stands. If the police didn't weren't prepared to deal with a riot they shouldn't have started one.

	11-01-2003 23:24									#26
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The point is: Are we sure they did started the riot?

I seriously doubt it, and I do not believe all those conspiracy theories that everything was organized in order to dicredit the movement. (like you said)

I still believe it was more mixture of these things:
(no in any particular order)
- Violence of some protester
- Government mistakes (sending drafties to the "front")
- Ineptitude of some of the police officers

Saluti

	11-01-2003 23:26									#27
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You have the evidence of agent-provacoteurs in front of you, and yet you cling to the belief that the police made "mistakes." What do you need, the signed plans laid out in front ot you?

	11-01-2003 23:37									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit who got what he deserved

You Italians more and more scare me.

	11-01-2003 23:39									#29
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Not all Italians are so bad. Italy has the largest functional Communist Party in Europe.

Avanti populo, avanti populo,
Bandiera rossa, bandierra rossa!

	11-01-2003 23:40									#30
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che- the picture was taken BEFORE the cop shot the assaulter; the rioters had already smashed the car's windows and opened the truck's door when the policeman defended himself shooting, and the air was filled of tear gas causing no sight at all. The "innocent" was going to smash his head like a melon, what would YOU have done?