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Tripledoc
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It's a simple question - who bankrolled Hitler?
You don't have to explode.
You are the idiot for apologizing for Dulles and the other financiers of the 30s.
This is not an apology for Hitler. International finance was on the supply side - Hitler on the demand side of the issue.
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Tripledoc
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I just find it strange that the Anglo-Americans would first banroll Hitler and his industrialist cronies - not moving an inch to help the social democrats when they were in power.
Then later when the firebombing starts they begin to target the workers quarters - where there was real oppostion to Hitler - into burning rubble.
How do you explain that from a moral - nay political - viewpoint.
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Chris 62
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But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:25
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I consider you a moron War, so who gives a rat's behind about your ignore list?
Your attempting to apply modern morality to 1940s events, only an idiot would even attempt it.
quote:
I just find it strange that the Anglo-Americans would first banroll Hitler and his industrialist cronies - not moving an inch to help the social democrats when they were in power.
Then later when the firebombing starts they begin to target the workers quarters - where there was real oppostion to Hitler - into burning rubble.
How do you explain that from a moral - nay political - viewpoint. |
Back to the real discussion...
Hitler's politics were extremly popular not just in Germany.
He had MANY admirers in the USA, including the US ambassador to England, Joseph Kennedy, and the famous avator Charles Lindberg (Lucky lindy was a BIG time racist, some of his recorded speaches would make a clansmen proud, he's on the record for wanting to live in a "Jew free nation").
As for Strategic bombing, Harris subscribed to the Italian airial theorist Dohet's idea that "The bomber will always get through", and that nations could be bombed into submission.
This idea had a large appeal to Churchill, it would require NO large ground army with appalling casualties as in WWI, in fact, no invasion at all was the goal, it was the US that insisted that a cross-channell invasion was the main allied goal.
It also had a added revenge factor, as Britain had been heavily bombed by Germany before any serious attepmt was made by Bomber Command (even in 1941, a British bomber was lucky to have a bomb land withen 25 MILES of the target point).
The US favored precision bombing in daylight, the British preferred night area bombing, another reason for this was British bombers could not survive by daylight (Britain's at war start heavy bomber was the Witley, not an effective type), and since Britian's tiny field army was engaged in Africa, the middle and far east, this was a way to strike back at Germany.
Bombing would not be effective untill 1944, when the correct target was selected, German transportation.
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Inverse Icarus
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flying too low to the ground
May 2001
time: 00:25
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it's stupid to take the moral high ground in a war. the side that is willing to do whatever it takes to win, no matter how horrific, is most likely going to win. when you take the high road, you just fall down further.
after ww2, america quasi-adopted this moral high ground stuff, like in Somalia where our troops couldn't fire first at enemies. horrible.
in vietnam, the veitnamese did whatever it took to not only win strategic points on the battlefield, but also to keep the local populus believing in the cause, and hating the americans. for instance, the Americans went out of their way to give veitnamese children shots to protect from some diseases, and the veitnamese chopped off their arms and went on some propaganda campagin that america was trying to kill them.
it was horrible. and they won.
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by UberKruX
for instance, the Americans went out of their way to give veitnamese children shots to protect from some diseases, and the veitnamese chopped off their arms and went on some propaganda campagin that america was trying to kill them.
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I head precisely that story related by colonol Kurtz (Marlon Brando) in the movie 'Apocalyse Now' by Francis Ford Coppola.
Whether it is fact or fiction I am unsure...
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Drogue
Well, that's the way you think it is. We are still entitled to disagree. Germany didn't start area bombing either. Even in Britain we're taught that we started it, even though it was 'justified'. |
Germany bombed Posnan and Warsaw within the first few weeks of the war. Britain hadn't even gotten its air force into position by that time.
Has there ever been a war in which once one side has committed atrocities the other hasn't responded in kind? Remember how the Germans started chemical warfare during WWI? At least the allies didn't attempt a "final solution" to the German problem. It should also be pointed out that the Germans eventually deliberately farmed out their war materials production to residential areas in an attempt to protect them from Allied bombing. Using civilians as a shield is considered a war crime.
In the 1930s military theorists had already predicted the use of strategic bombing of cities as a means of winning wars. Even though diplomats at the time were busy trying to limit other aspects of warfare no one seemed to object enough to this idea to convene an international summit.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:25
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I still haven't heard an adequate answer to the question of "Why is it OK for us to murder people just because our enemy does it?"
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by UberKruX
dresden was a cultural center for germany that the alled forces fire-bombed to cinders. was there any industry there? rumors of any industry? any reason other than terrorism to bomb it?
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Like I said up above, by 1944 and 1945 the Germans had moved a lot of parts manufacturing and assembly to small shops in residential areas. IIRC Dresden was supposed to be involved in the manufacture of airplane parts.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Especially when it fails to further war aims in any meaningful degree. |
One truly major misapprehension of the strategic bombing campaign was the notion that Germany's electric power generation grid was too spread out to be significantly damaged. We know now that hitting even a small part of a power grid can so overload the rest that it all comes down. If the allies had allocated even a fraction of their strategic bombing to power plants they could have brought German production to a stand still.
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12-01-2003 00:29
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