13-01-2003 11:52									#1
	How long does a cease fire last? Enter the AD-FREE zone

I thought a cease fire lasted 16 turns. But yesterday, after I captured Paris, the French offered a cease fire which I accepted. I completed my turn and in the next French turn I got a message saying the cease fire had expired - less than one complete turn.

Was I just unlucky or is this a well known AI "cheat"?

RJM at Sleepers

	13-01-2003 17:58									#2
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The AI seem to have considerable flexibility in whether or not they observe their treaties. In the most irritating case, they can cancel the treaty on their side while you are still obliged to observe it. You are told "we are at peace with the Romans" if you try to attack, but you are not given the option to demand a withdrawal of troops.

To answer your question directly, I recall that cease fires last a random 8-16 turns.

	13-01-2003 21:49									#3
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quote: Originally posted by DaveV The AI seem to have considerable flexibility in whether or not they observe their treaties.

Lol, succinctly put.

	13-01-2003 23:22									#4
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quote: Originally posted by DaveV The AI seem to have considerable flexibility in whether or not they observe their treaties. In the most irritating case, they can cancel the treaty on their side while you are still obliged to observe it. You are told "we are at peace with the Romans" if you try to attack, but you are not given the option to demand a withdrawal of troops. To answer your question directly, I recall that cease fires last a random 8-16 turns.

I've found that when the AI civilization does that to you — i.e., letting its peace treaty "expire" with you due to lack of contact or whatever formula determines that — you can attack it w/o any damage to your reputation. The same goes for cease-fires, and I've had a "one-turn" cease-fire end w/it expiring during my turn on a rare occasion.

Gatekeeper

	14-01-2003 11:17									#5
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A cease fire or peace treaty lasts until you press enter ....

	14-01-2003 14:10									#6
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quote: Originally posted by ramses II. A cease fire or peace treaty lasts until you press enter ....

It seems to especially happen that way when YOU really need a respite.

Monk

	14-01-2003 16:10									#7
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quote: Originally posted by DaveV The AI seem to have considerable flexibility in whether or not they observe their treaties. In the most irritating case, they can cancel the treaty on their side while you are still obliged to observe it. You are told "we are at peace with the Romans" if you try to attack, but you are not given the option to demand a withdrawal of troops. To answer your question directly, I recall that cease fires last a random 8-16 turns.

This situation - peace, but no ability to demand tribute - seems to be certain indicator of the AI's intent to sneak attack on the turn!

SG[1]

	15-01-2003 00:44									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits This situation - peace, but no ability to demand tribute - seems to be certain indicator of the AI's intent to sneak attack on the turn! SG[1]

Yes, that has been postulated and accepted as a quasi-truth.

	15-01-2003 01:44									#9
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Yet another reason to keep in close contact with the AIs via the diplomacy screen... you get an early warning when the sneak attack is coming. Plus, you may provoke war... and it's always better to do that during your turn then during the AI's.

	18-01-2003 20:00									#10
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never trust the AI, they have no reputation

	19-01-2003 00:30									#11
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Actually, the AI's reputation *is* affected from time to time when it violates cease-fires and peace treaties ... but it seems to only take a hit when it does so within a few turns of such agreements.

Gatekeeper

	19-01-2003 00:44									#12
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And if you have a senate to consider, it seems like you don't get overruled as often against an AI that has repeatedly broken treaties, cease fires. If that is true then the AI does take reputation hits.

Monk

	25-02-2003 00:04									#13
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I have found that the AI will break cease fires more often when it is allied with other AI civ's against you. The more allied AI civs it has (against you) the more often it will break them and in less time.

I think the AI is doing what probably most of us do. If I'm attacking an AI civ and all of a sudden they throw in a cease fire it can slow an attack. Contact another CIV which is currently at war with the first AI and the message I always get first is 'Lets teach them a lesson' or something like that.

If you are not at peace or allied with someone who is at war with the CIV just pay someone off to declare war with them. Pop back into diplomacy and the question 'teach them a lesson' comes up.

So, this maybe is what the AI is doing. ?? dunno, just a guess.

	25-02-2003 00:19									#14
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Sounds reasonable, MWHC.

The trick to diplomacy is waiting for the time when you can't demand tribute or demand withdrawal (of course, you can't demand withdrawal until the first turn after a peace treaty). At that moment, you contact their enemy and agree to declare war. That way, the breaking of the peace happens on your turn, not the AI's.

	25-02-2003 02:05									#15
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Yes, always better on your turn, Since the AI gets a sneak attack bonus against you, and you don't against them.

	03-03-2003 00:22									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Caesar the Great never trust the AI, they have no reputation

Just don't trust them ever,that should do.
After 1750AD they'll try everything to keep you at war.
First there are the enumerous treaties to contain your agression(even if you haven't ever fought 1 battle or did the smallest harrasing of any civ)
The never ending sneak attacks and tech thefts

and this afternoon I saw something that really looked sureal:
I'm at war with the Carths and the Aztecs. I sign a Cease fire with the Aztecs(more is impossible because I haven't yet build UN) and a few turns later after conquering some Carth cities and killing a lot of their units I get a diplomatic meeting:
"C: We are fighting a mutual enemy: "the Aztecs" and are winning(but I bet they haven't met them the last 25turns) ,declare war at the Aztecs at once."
I knew the AI's are used to doing such things against me but with me against an other AI???

Shade

	04-03-2003 04:31									#17
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remember this, if your rep stinks, a ceasefire against agressive nations mongols, zulus, isn't worth the paper its printed on! or any other nation for that matter...

bottom line, the ai will sneak attack you when it has the best option to do so...as a rule i thought it was 14 turns if your rep has no black marks against it , provided they attacked first.

	04-03-2003 04:41									#18
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever if your rep stinks,

read " If your power is supreme"


Shade

	08-03-2003 14:15									#19
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I've found that every time I think a cease fire wont be made its made and every time I think it will be made its made, The AI is very Ironic.
-J.B.-

	17-03-2003 05:35									#20
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Hmm I always thought a cease-fire holds till the AI decides to contact you again. From my observation one time I signed a ceasefire and moved every troops away from the enemy, the outcome: it holds till the end of the game.
Next situation:
After the treaty I accidentally moved a unit next to one of my enemy about three turns later, he contacted me and whoops expired.
Strange but true

	17-03-2003 08:51									#21
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Reinhard-Baer: I'm glad someone is using my pseudonym from the third AOW PBEM

	17-03-2003 13:03									#22
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Yup - a CF lasts exactly as long as the AI chooses it to.

SG[1]

	17-03-2003 17:28									#23
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quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC Reinhard-Baer: I'm glad someone is using my pseudonym from the third AOW PBEM

Yup after reading all these interesting discussion threads I got the desire to register and participate but couldn't find a suitable name. While browsing your game-threads I found this name and I like it, it's very cool. Well now when I'm think about it I might have asked you first for permission but unfortunately I can't find the game threads anymore and I couldn't remember your name either, hopefully I didn't violated your copyright.

Hey you did a very good job as Reinhard Baer, invading France but unfortunately you weren't allowed to continue hmm perhaps I should post in this thread and demand that you should be installed again. Might cause a lot of confusion and would be very funny

	17-03-2003 20:37									#24
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Yeah I know, it took a few weeks for the confusion to settle down
No copyright, you can use it, actually I prefer you do