17-01-2003 03:31									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I must confess I never thought of that........done correctly it could reduce tedium (probably only in SP though) at little cost.

	17-01-2003 03:52									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

YIKES, you get the library and the market and the temple up before caravans in new cities, ? seems odd to me, i would go defender, temple, caravan, market, caravan, lib/caravan (can reverse those depending)

	17-01-2003 04:22									#33
	Temples?? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

This is power Democracy, yes?? So probably you are running Lux at 20-40%, so your major cities can celebrate. And you probably also have a clutch of happiness WOW.

With those parameters, I think you might do well to consider MPl before temple. The Market will insure early celebration at size three and boost gold. Depending on the mix of Lux and WOW, temples are unnecessary for a long time, after aquaduct in some instances. And if you don't have Adam Smith yet, it is also wasteful to build until necessary.

Apart from that, did the auto-build work well??

	17-01-2003 04:45									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

BM, are you playing deity with 40+ cities. Without a lot of happiness wonders, temples are critical. I guess, I'm getting used to MP games where you're lucky to get one happiness wonder instead of complaining about the one that you didn't get.

RAH

	17-01-2003 04:57									#35
	Re: Temples?? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk This is power Democracy, yes?? So probably you are running Lux at 20-40%, so your major cities can celebrate. And you probably also have a clutch of happiness WOW. Apart from that, did the auto-build work well??

It worked as well as could be expected - i.e. it did what I asked it to. However, there was too much fine tuning needed even then - now I tend to micromanage even more, so I don't use it anymore.

And as I said, I used the build queue trick back when I was less skilled - so I didn't know about the celebration 'trick'. Or I knew it, but didn't consider its significance.

	17-01-2003 06:27									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

you certainly don't want to build three or four buildings in a row, unless your very secure in MP, and caravans are a better build, but then again, alternating is a good idea.

temples are a must, its the other buildings i question, they just delay caravans and must give me a return or i don't build them until absolutely necessary.

astf, of course this alleviates all that

	17-01-2003 07:14									#37
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by rah BM, are you playing deity with 40+ cities. Without a lot of happiness wonders, temples are critical. I guess, I'm getting used to MP games where you're lucky to get one happiness wonder instead of complaining about the one that you didn't get. RAH

Hey RAH,

Oh, I very much agree that temples are critical, "Without a lot of happiness wonders..."; and, yes, 40+ cities are common in power democracies.

But then, I set up "parameters" in my discussion that take care of the lack of WOW. In SP games, getting wonders doesn't seem to be so difficult.

As stated, depending on your mix of wonders and Lux setting, temples are far less critical until size 5-9. In that context, I offer again the idea that building Markets makes more sense.

Just wondering based on some of your previous comments about the nature of your MP games, but do you play MP as a "power democracy"??? I got the impression that your games didn't last that long.

	17-01-2003 09:44									#38
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

actually our games last long enough, but its more profitable to set up the a trade route or two first, then dump in a marketplace.

not too mention, expansion takes priority, as its about the amount of cites, not the measily 8 powerfull ones, unless those come real early

	17-01-2003 18:35									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

In most of our one session games, Democracy is just available towards the end. (unless it's a duel, which get considerably farther). Expansion comes first. We play on small rocks and if you play perfectionist, you handicap yourself because by the time you're ready for the next wave of expansion, there's no land left to build on. But more importantly, if you play few cities with extensive infrastructure, it's like painting a target on your civ, come and get me. (and they will).

Without the happy wonders, you're rush buying temples in all your new cities after 12. SO unless you don't build that many cities until you have democracy, temples are considerably more important than markets. By the time you get democracy, you'd better have more than 20 cities, or you've fallen considerably behind.


RAH

	18-01-2003 01:30									#40
	Remove this text

Color me confused.

I am having a hard time understanding how these interesting observations on MP playstyle answer cond's question. Perhaps he, cond, would elaborate a bit on what kind of information he seeks. I'm guessing that his question, at the least, revolves around games that actually are democracies, however.

In any case, cond, the first response to your question by STYOM asks a still pregnant question..."What's a power democracy?" I have some ideas that may be helpful, but I'm not sure what information you are looking for.

Monk

	18-01-2003 01:39									#41
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man What's a power democracy?

The concept of 'power democracy' has been created by starlifter at civfanatics.
The main idea is to build many fat cities before starting rolling over your foes. The main advantage is to get very good results when playing the CFC's Game of the Month (because the formula takes your civ score into account).

starlifter is a very experienced and creative player. Unfortunately he didn't start reading Apolyton before last summer, so he 'discovered' all by himself a number of features which are common use here (contrary to smash who posts on both forums and transfers to civfanatics much of what is discovered here by samson, solo and other creative analysts of the game).