14-01-2003 07:39									#31
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd Nope, almost positive 1869.

Perry's black fleet arrived in 1854.

The Meiji restoration was in 1868.

	14-01-2003 07:42									#32
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quote: Finally: take the Emancipation Proclamation out. America was late among Western countries in outlawing slavery.

I was thinking that, but then weren't they far and away the largest user of slaves?

I think Universal Suffrage would be a better choice, but that is again no one nation or event.

	14-01-2003 07:49									#33
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Well, it was a trend that is just as important as any event on the list.

	14-01-2003 07:53									#34
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The dropping of the Atomic Bomb was probably the most important in the last 400 years. It singlehandedly ended World Wars, and brought about an era of relative peace between World Powers.

	14-01-2003 07:56									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin I was thinking that, but then weren't they far and away the largest user of slaves?

No, I think that honor goes to Brazil.

	14-01-2003 08:01									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 If you explain why Japan opening up in 1869 was historically important, then by all means, I'll put it in the 'list'.

Haven't you heard of Perry? Don't you know anything about your country's history? ... Tokugawa Japan believed in isolation; it didn't want to have anything to do with other countries and had its doors locked tightly. Then along came your Perry from your country in his black ships to open those doors; he aimed his big guns at Japan and warned, "If you don't deal with us, look out for these; open your doors, and negotiate with other countries too." And then when Japan did open its doors and tried dealing with other countries, it learned that all of those countries were a fearfully aggressive lot. And so for its own defense it took your country as its teacher and set about learning to be aggressive. You might say we became your disciples. - General Ishiwara Kanji to an American prosecutor

That's the best I could do.

	14-01-2003 08:09									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov No, I think that honor goes to Brazil.

True. I wasn't considering Brazil as a 'western' nation.

	14-01-2003 08:15									#38
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Eurocentrism exists because the world is dominated by European, or rather, Western culture. Becuase of this events that are to be considered important on a worldwide scale are almost inevitably those that affect the European nations of the world. It's not racism, it's just the sad reality of the world we live in.

	14-01-2003 08:20									#39
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Well, I think it's more to do with the timeframe anyway. 1600-2000... the European Era! The very question is Eurocentric.

	14-01-2003 08:30									#40
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Yah, I was wondering where that timeframe came from. But he did say it was a Western history class, right?

	14-01-2003 08:31									#41
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ranskaldan:

"1911, End of the Chinese Empire.
Put the most populous nation of the world on cardiac arrest for 70 years."

Wouldn't it be better to go with the founding of the PRC by Mao, which was the event that ended that chaotic period?"

"Whenever it was that Simon Bolivar won freedom for South America.
South America was probably the first place in the world to have leftists, rightists, juntas, coups, etc. Pretty impressive, since the remainder of the world took another century to learn."

Right, Simon Bolivar starting his revolts has to be up with one of the 25 most important events. The end of Spanish Empire and the forming of a new Latin American collection of states was a very big even for that part of the world.

	14-01-2003 08:36									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi ranskaldan: "1911, End of the Chinese Empire. Put the most populous nation of the world on cardiac arrest for 70 years." Wouldn't it be better to go with the founding of the PRC by Mao, which was the event that ended that chaotic period?"

Mao did the second half of that cardiac arrest.

Deng ended the cardiac arrest in '78.

quote: "Whenever it was that Simon Bolivar won freedom for South America. South America was probably the first place in the world to have leftists, rightists, juntas, coups, etc. Pretty impressive, since the remainder of the world took another century to learn." Right, Simon Bolivar starting his revolts has to be up with one of the 25 most important events. The end of Spanish Empire and the forming of a new Latin American collection of states was a very big even for that part of the world.

	14-01-2003 08:41									#43
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"
Mao did the second half of that cardiac arrest."

Still though the forming of the PRC has to be a big event in itself....

just noticed a typo, change even to event in "a very big even for that part of the world. "

	14-01-2003 08:54									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi " Mao did the second half of that cardiac arrest." Still though the forming of the PRC has to be a big event in itself.... just noticed a typo, change even to event in "a very big even for that part of the world. "

Yes, that's true. But on the other hand, we'd have 3 big events for China in one century:

1. End of Empire.
2. Mao ascendant.
3. Deng begins China's rise.

Nothing wrong with putting three in, but if panzer's running out of space I'd say cut the second one out.

	14-01-2003 08:59									#45
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Instead of the Emancipation Proclamation, why not include the Abolition bill in 1833- in Britain, banning the institution of slavery in the British empire. This has a much greater scope than the Proclamation, as the British enforced the ban on the rest of the world.

Also, rather then the Congress of Vienna, why not Waterloo?

As for Japanese history, the Meiji Restoration is important, but less so than Tokugawa Ieyatsu's victory in 1600. No unified Japan otherwise.

	14-01-2003 09:52									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 1607 1st N. American colony established at Jamestown

Pre-1600, but the residents of St. Augustine, Florida might disagree.

	14-01-2003 10:07									#47
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& the residents of Santa Fe, New Mexico as well.

1620 - First European women come to America, giving the colonies a quality of permanence.
1620 - First African slaves imported into America.

	14-01-2003 10:11									#48
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Eli Whitney's invention of the cotton gin - beginning the industrial revolution

Edison's light bulb

Pasteur's germ theory

Replace "Moon Landing" which was cool but had little effect on history with "Launch of Yuri Gargarin" first human in space.

	14-01-2003 19:59									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Eli Whitney's invention of the cotton gin - beginning the industrial revolution

Eli Whitney invented the Cotton Gin after the Industrial Revolution had already begun.

	14-01-2003 20:30									#50
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A couple of events are so paramount, so global in their import that they have to be placed on top of the list, separated from the others by a wide margin.

1. The Industrial Revolution. Not so much an "event" as a seemingly irreversible process that swept mankind starting in 1700's Britain.
2. The Scientific Revolution. You know, Newton, Einstein, Darwin, Pasteur, and all that. It can be argued that the scientific revolution is even bigger and is a requirement of an industrial revolution, but I rank it number 2 as you do not need to be a scientist nor even be aware of science or mechanics to benefit and use the products of the industrial revolution.
3. Globalization. Call it the communications revolution, call it European/state and American/corporate imperialism, call it the result of the growth and fight between economic systems of Communism and Capitalism, whatever; the fact is, that the world is one as never before imagined in 1599.
4. The rise of the nation-state as the globally accepted geographic organizational method, plus the general trend towards democratic (mass) institutions (if not, alas, with pure democratic practices) at the expense of the pre-industrial revolution ruling classes.

And I'm going to leave my list at that. Anything else would likely be an extension of the above four items, except possibly moments of Art (and those too, will show a heavy prejudice towards societies that have used and benefited from the above four movements). So I'm just leaving it at the above four and say that from them, all else (Hitler, Lennon, Lenin, Einstein, Ghandi, Mao, Apartheid) follows.

	14-01-2003 20:33									#51
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"...why not Waterloo? "

Because in the great scheme of things Waterloo was not all that important...even had Napoleon won there, there were still huge Austrian and Russian armies set to advance into France, against which he had bugger all he could field. He wouldn't have lasted the summer.

	14-01-2003 20:36									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin quote: Also I need a few more 15th-16th century events 1492 springs to mind, as does 1453 and 1517.

If you look at this list, and any one of these dates you don't immediately recognize... SHAME!!!!!!



Of course, it's too late for your teacher. But why she would separate the Reformation, the discovery of America and the fall of Constantinople (I also think of 1453 as the invention of the printing press, though that exact date is vague) from the modern era is anybody's guess.

	14-01-2003 20:43									#53
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quote: Originally posted by ranskaldan Down with Eurocentrism! 1911, End of the Chinese Empire. Put the most populous nation of the world on cardiac arrest for 70 years. 1978, opening up of China. End of that cardiac arrest. Whenever it was that Simon Bolivar won freedom for South America. South America was probably the first place in the world to have leftists, rightists, juntas, coups, etc. Pretty impressive, since the remainder of the world took another century to learn. Introduction of euro/Maastricht Treaty/whatever Shows us the direction for the future. Finally: take the Emancipation Proclamation out. America was late among Western countries in outlawing slavery.

.

Simon Bolivar won freedom for Venezuela. He was Spanish by descent.

Chinese empire was ended by the West. If China is "re-opening", then it has to be re-opening to somebody, right? Isn't that somebody the "eurocentric" West?

Everything you list shows an Eurocentric bias, but you decry the same bias in others?

	14-01-2003 20:48									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin quote: Finally: take the Emancipation Proclamation out. America was late among Western countries in outlawing slavery. I was thinking that, but then weren't they far and away the largest user of slaves? I think Universal Suffrage would be a better choice, but that is again no one nation or event.

If the US wasn't, it's because Brazil was. And Brazil didn't outlaw slavery until 1888, over 20 years after the Americans. Your number 1 slave exporter, all time? Britain, with over 2.5-4,000,000 slaves moved. Portugal was #2 (all went to Brazil) and Spain was #3. I'll look up the numbers later when I return home - I have a 500 page book all about the slave trade that's chock full of stats.

	14-01-2003 20:52									#55
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Doesn't Yury Gagarin (sp?) rate? You know, first guy in space?

Just a thought.

-Arrian

	14-01-2003 20:56									#56
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Btw, Panzer, you HAVE to have Louis Pasteur developing the germ theory of disease (1878, with the publication of "Germ Theory and it's Application to Medicine and Surgery."

	14-01-2003 21:00									#57
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Arrian -- Look 7 posts above your own.

quote: Originally posted by JohnT If you look at this list, and any one of these dates you don't immediately recognize... SHAME!!!!!!

Noooo. I don't recognize 1517. --Er, maybe Luther??

	14-01-2003 21:04									#58
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Yup. Protestant Reformation begins, October 31st, 1517 at 12:00 noon.

	14-01-2003 21:48									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Replace "Moon Landing" which was cool but had little effect on history with "Launch of Yuri Gargarin" first human in space.

I was going to say the same thing.

Also : the Wright brothers flight has to be inthere somewhere.