16-01-2003 00:37									#31
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Okay, I'll add where possible...

Happiness: for every citizen, count 0 if he's unhappy or resisting, 1 if he's content, 2 if happy. Divide by 2* number of citizens (6 in our current case)

Population: it's the sum of the population of all cities.
Per city, two things are counted:
- size, where pop = (size^2 + size)*5,000. so size 5 --> (25+5)*5,000 = 150,000. size 1 --> 10,000
- food: I think it is 1,000 per food in the box. which should give 10,000 for EotS, and 13,000 for Hurricane.
Total should give 183,000, I don't know where the extra 1,000 is (possibly in our worker).

GNP is commerce produced, I thought, and not gold. But, I'm hesitating whether it was before or after corruption.

Mfg Goods the same: I don't know anymore whether it was before corruption, or after.

Land area is obvious. 100 square miles per tile

Literacy is something similar to the happiness: sum for each citizen, 0 if no library is in the city he lives in, 1 if library, 2 if university, 3 if research lab. Divide by 4*citizens

Disease: number of disease tiles (jungle / fp) within your borders, divided by total number of tiles in your borders.

Pollution unknown

life expectancy unknown, but it has something to do with how much food extra you're producing, and how much disease you have.

family size unknown (also something to do with how much extra food)

military service is some factor * troops / citizens. Could be related to life expectancy

Annual income: gold / citizen (unsure)

Productivity similar to what Nathan said before me. commerce (not gold)+food surplus+shields. But, again, I'm uncertain whethere it is counted before corruption or not.

DeepO

	16-01-2003 00:40									#32
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Keep in mind also that part of the work on a courthouse can be accomplished with rushing, whereas you can't rush a FP. That's usually the thing that makes me want a courthouse (and often a marketplace for WLT?D) before a FP in SP play.

	16-01-2003 00:44									#33
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Woops.. cross posted with a few of you, it seems. I was stuck with that damn pop-formulae... simple math has been too long ago

Arrian: why would we need to build a temple? 2 lux, and 2 troops should give us all the happiness we need on chieftain. You're right about the courthouse, though, in SP I will always build or rush it, but here... it might be better to start on the FP right away. It depends on the terrain, and the exact distance to our capital, I think.

Military strength: that should mean that they have at most one less warrior than us... nothing decisive on the iron

Oh, Nathan, sorry... I forgot that at the start, our citizen was located to an unimproved grass land... I thought it to be on a fp. You're right then

	16-01-2003 00:56									#34
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If you want to get picky, yes, I should have said commerce rather than gold for GNP and Productivity. (I rarely make the distinction between the two terms in my own mind.) I checked my nation in the Euro-PBEM game (big enough to have waste and corruption but still small enough for hand counting) and determined the following:

GNP is calculated BEFORE corruption is subtracted out. (Yuck.)

Mfg Goods is AFTER waste, so only shields you actually get are factored in. (That's better.)

Productivity is also AFTER both waste and corruption.

	16-01-2003 00:59									#35
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DeepO,

Building or not building a temple, IMO, comes down to whether we're building the FP in a city that is at the border (risky, but probably better placement long-term) or back one row. If it's a border town, I would want the temple for border expansion. Forcing them to march 2 tiles in is more of a defensive bonus than walls + barracks.

-Arrian

	16-01-2003 01:06									#36
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay GNP is calculated BEFORE corruption is subtracted out. (Yuck.)

Are you sure? I just checked this out in one of my own PBEM games, and I got those opposite (GNP is total Commerce after Corruption). I'll verify again the next time it comes around.


Dominae

	16-01-2003 01:11									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Forcing them to march 2 tiles in is more of a defensive bonus than walls + barracks.

For defensive purposes, I'll take the Walls and Barracks any day. I think you're assuming that there will be Roads everywhere if and when Vox attacks, which I doubt. Their Immortals will do a slow march, 1 tile at a time, on the best defensive terrain. Expanded borders will do nothing against this (other than preventing them from healing easily, but since Immortals do not retreat, this effect is minor).


Dominae

	16-01-2003 01:13									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Are you sure? I just checked this out in one of my own PBEM games, and I got those opposite (GNP is total Commerce after Corruption). I'll verify again the next time it comes around.

Double, triple, and quadruple checked, at least.

	16-01-2003 01:19									#39
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Hm, quadruple-check is better than anything that I've done so far, but mabye my double-check will trump it when my turn finally comes around...



Oh, and thanks DeepO for the info.


Dominae

	16-01-2003 02:32									#40
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Nathan, I stand corrected (quadruple is better than double!).


Dominae

	16-01-2003 02:34									#41
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Dominae,

What I mean is that marching two tiles in will give us 2 turns to hit them with WCs and whittle them down.

Yes, that requires clearing/roading the terrain north of our city.

Barracks/walls/temple together is the best, of course.

-Arrian

	16-01-2003 06:24									#42
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A temple doesn't do much good for defense if the enemy can come in from a corner. Also consider how long it will be before we'll have spare workers to clear jungles two tiles from a city even just in the most likely directions of attack.

	16-01-2003 11:23									#43
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just a small note, but the wonder bonus chopping does not work with the FP. I suppose it only works in big wonders..

	16-01-2003 12:57									#44
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quote: Originally posted by alva just a small note, but the wonder bonus chopping does not work with the FP. I suppose it only works in big wonders..

Are you talking about using wonder building to redirect where chops go, or about something else? And what does happen when you chop and the city is building a FP?

	16-01-2003 17:07									#45
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Nathan, I guess you lose it. Oh well, as long as the pyramids work, it's fine

As to the list: nice of you to check out the corruption things, this more or less completes the list. Oh, and I wasn't picking with the difference between commerce and gold, I genuinely thought it was a difference: marketplaces will not increase the GNP, but will increase your gold production... I think.

DeepO

	16-01-2003 18:06									#46
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Are you talking about using wonder building to redirect where chops go, or about something else? And what does happen when you chop and the city is building a FP?

Yep, I noticed it on my current SP game, as far as I could see (turn went rather fast), no city gained any bonus.
(I'm not a 100 % certain, let's say 99%)

I was chopping a forest next to the FP building city and was trying to redirect the bonus a city that had the forest in it's radius too. Didn't work