15-01-2003 04:59									#1
	Prima game guide Tired of ads?

I do not have the guide.

Does the guide reflect the change mentioned in another thread about the oppressometer?

I'm just wondering, because given the extensive delays, could the change have been made after the guide was written, and therefore could there be other things in the guide that are out of date?

and i realize that the main reason for the delay is related to "bug hunting" and not gameplay changes.

However, the notion that changes may have been made post publication, and therefore make sections of the guide wrong, did cross my mind.

	15-01-2003 05:27									#2
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The screenshot mentioned is from a VERY old build. The oppressometer is most definitely in the guide, and appears often. I can't imagine that they took it out in the form it was in.

I doubt there's been much structural changes; I suspect it's mostly tweaking, balance issues and bugfixes.

	15-01-2003 06:12									#3
	Remove this text

The guide is supposedly as full of bugs as PTW was when it came out.

	15-01-2003 06:19									#4
	Remove this text

Well it IS a Prima guide...

[Where's Vel, just when you need comments on Prima guides?]

	15-01-2003 07:18									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

This guide as well as others are written from code that is not final and of course any number of changes will be made. This one was due out in Nov (did not quite make it), so it had to be written and submitted well before that.
Prima does host updates for guides, so you will likely see some corrections down the line. In any event it does not have much to get excited about. I like to see them, so I waste the money. I have even bought guides and never played the game (mechcmd 2 was the last one).
PTW was the other way around. I had finished playing (for now) and then bought the guide.

	15-01-2003 08:52									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Seriously, this game is being delayed so much, the guide is going to be made useless.

	15-01-2003 09:36									#7
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Unless the manual that comes with the game is completely useless then the guide isn't a good value. I can't think of any information in the guide that wouldn't be in the manual. Also the guide tends to avoid entire subjects like ship missions and types. Some information is put in chart form while other information ( too often incomplete ) is discussed in the guides text. ( It's also very confusing. It took me forever to figure out what a DEA was. )

I bought the guide to learn how the game works. I ended up learning more reading reviews on the web, and looking at screenshots. Once I get this game I imagine the guide will go to the great unused book box in my basement.

Avoid it if you can.

-----------------------------------------------------

My favorite guide by far was for Dungeon Keeper.

The resumes for all the dungeon monsters not only provided all monster info in an easy to read format, but was hilarious to boot.

	15-01-2003 10:09									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I think one of the things about the guide being 'useless' is that we are indeed missing so much information from the manual, that taking it in context is impossible.

That being said, totally ignoring the racial bonuses/detractions, glossing over many of the more interesting effects of race bonuses (and not going into more detail on race customization)...there's a lot that the guide doesn't cover.

Still, it's been useful for some info, like a little tiny smidgen more on harvesters. And lots of pretty pictures.

	15-01-2003 12:42									#9
	Tired of ads?

The pictures in the guide are useless to me, I can not make out the print on many of them (too old).
Some the of tables may be usefull as often the manals do not give the data or it is not all in one place (remains to be seen). Reading it did get me interested in seeing the impact of some of the improvements. Yes they explaination for DEA was very late in the book.

	15-01-2003 14:56									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I really hate the use of obfuscatory acronyms like DEA. Apart from being obscure, it's misleading as you can have more than one "dominant" activity in a region. And how do you build an activity?

And another pet peeve is the term "test tubes" when they really mean labs. It's really confusing if you've played MOO2 because test tubes are the output from labs in that game. In this one, test tubes produce research points.

Still, at least the currency shows a spark of wit - AU = antaran unit but is really the chemical symbol for gold.

Andrew

	15-01-2003 15:36									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What does "obfuscatory" mean ?

The guides can become very useful in the UK. Here it is common to ship games in DVD style jewel cases, with very limited instruction manuals.

Complicated games suffer as we are guided to the CD .pdf for all info. Personally, I think this sucks.

Lets hope that the game instructions are a) comprehensive (making the guide redundant); and b) actually included in the UK.

Does anyone know if there will be "proper" instruction booklets in the UK on release ?

	15-01-2003 16:20									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

obfuscate
verb
FORMAL
to make (something) less clear and harder to understand, esp. intentionally
Then she was criticized for using arguments that obfuscated the main issue.

It seems likely that the UK will get a proper manual. The *antz certainly want it this way.

However, it depends on what IG US and IG Euro decide. I think that the 2 companies aren't as close as there name suggests.

	15-01-2003 17:45									#13
	Tired of ads?

If the european version comes with fewer components, get the US copy via a UK importer and email the european publisher letting them know they lost your sale. It works for me. Additionally you always get the patches, and get them first. Anyone feeling confident that MoO3 won't need patches? For an extra £7 or so I am increasingly deciding that the cost is worth it for almost any strategy game.

	15-01-2003 17:50									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

When you say "UK importer" I assume you refer to a company here (In the UK). Do you have any Links?

I tied to get Civ3 shipped at launch from the US, but people like Amazon said they do not ship to UK. Alternatively do you know any Links in the US that will ship to the UK?

(Not just for Moo3, but GalCiv etc)

Thanks

	15-01-2003 22:30									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Hey I was looking at this guide at EB a few days ago (no I didn`t buy it!) and it seemed to me that the top tech levels were at level 50 or so. Say this isn`t so!

Somewhere I remember a BT saying he was in the level 30 techs and he thought he was still low on the tree? Humm.. can`t find that thead now though. Bah. Anyway, where is the top of the tech tree?

	17-01-2003 02:01									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by booklord Unless the manual that comes with the game is completely useless then the guide isn't a good value.

Some manuals are intentionally useless, because there is a strat guide. If the manual was too good, it would hurt sales of the strat guide.

Asmodean

P.S. I'm not saying that this is the case here...only pointing out that it has been seen before.

	22-01-2003 21:58									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by RolandtheMad Hey I was looking at this guide at EB a few days ago (no I didn`t buy it!) and it seemed to me that the top tech levels were at level 50 or so. Say this isn`t so! Somewhere I remember a BT saying he was in the level 30 techs and he thought he was still low on the tree? Humm.. can`t find that thead now though. Bah. Anyway, where is the top of the tech tree?

I think 50 is correct.
I believe that the beta tester was at tech level 30 when he finished the game, i.e. he was still pretty low in the tree for having completed the game. This implies that the tech tree is pretty huge.

	22-01-2003 23:29									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by ikilledmybroker When you say "UK importer" I assume you refer to a company here (In the UK). Do you have any Links? I tied to get Civ3 shipped at launch from the US, but people like Amazon said they do not ship to UK. Alternatively do you know any Links in the US that will ship to the UK? (Not just for Moo3, but GalCiv etc) Thanks

www.strategic-plus.co.uk are my heroes. They specialise in importing international games although they can sell you the UK versions too. Because they are UK based you don't get hit with surprise charges from Customs and Excise, its all included. You can order online via their web catalog, email them or just call them on the phone.

	23-01-2003 14:24									#19
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Thanks Grumbold, you Rock !!