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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin
If democratic elections are not free then they are by definition not democratic. |
Hah, tell that to Mayor Daley or, for that matter, to every leftist apologist in the world who contends that communism is good and that guys like Stalin are democratically elected.
Of course I know that those elections were rigged. But when we are accused of overthrowing democracy in Iran, it matters whether the elections were rigged in the first place.
I have no idea how much Soviet manipulation went in to rigging the elections in Iran in 1953. But I suspect there was a great deal of it.
Last edited by Ned on 18-01-2003 at 04:15
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DuncanK
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Evil Empire
Dec 2002
time: 21:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
Why are American so different from the rest of the west?
Simple... Money.
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The average American has about the same amount of money as the average person in the other industrialized country. The wealth is, in general, more unequally distributed, so we probably have more poor people here. That's not to say that poor people don't realize the importance of money.
quote:
Originally posted by Japher
Since we accept that fact, our society, economies, and even politics have moved to reflect that ideology.
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Unfortutely in favor of those with property.
quote:
Originally posted by Japher
The rest of the Western world has not accepted the fact that money is the source of all power (good and evil) because they do not want to face the ugliness of the truth. They therefore wallow in their patheticness of morals and ethics... ideals that have nothing to do with politics.
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How can money do good without ethics? Nevermind, I'm sure I won't be interested in the rhetoric.
quote:
Originally posted by Japher
When the rest of the world declines (and they have) the offer to become more like Americans then they have elected to become, or stay, more ethical and more poverish. Oh, well... your loss.
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Your assuming your policies are the best, which they are not.
quote:
Originally posted by Japher
I think that America is so diveresed and so driven by money, free trade, and humanitarian issues that the rest of the world becomes blinded to the actuall ways that make us the same as every other country. Such oversights lead to thread like this, and to the bettering of America and American culture becoming dominant the world over...
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Why are you even claiming now that the US is interested in humanitarian issues? You just said that we only care about money.
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DuncanK
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Evil Empire
Dec 2002
time: 21:25
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Here's an attempt to get more on the thread topic. Why is it that Americans seem less bothered than others by the fact that our government does stuff behind our back, not in our interest, but in the interest of some corporation.
Last edited by DuncanK on 18-01-2003 at 10:39
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by zulu9812
1953? That was ages ago, I hear you cry. Well, let's take a more up to date example of US meddling:
In the early 1990s, Afghanistan was ruled by a pro-soviet state. To get rid of this state, and purely to protect US interests, Britain and the US set about arming and training a fundamental isalmic group known as the Taliban who had agreed to fight Russia and force them out of the middle east. The Taliban's grab for power was succesful, largely thanks to Britain and America. So you'd think Osama (affiliated with the Taliban) would be greatful. Not so, since Saudi Arabia and George Bushi Snr. had prevented Bin Laden from taking out Saddam Hussein, even after American troops had trained Osama for the task. That's right folks, there are no terrorist links between Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. In fact, Bin Laden hates Saddam. Bin Laden wants Iraq to be an extremeist islamic state, much like Afghanistan. Incidentally, the members of the ruling party before the Taliban (I forget their name), whom America had helped to turf out of power then went on to form the Northern Alliance, whom America just helped back into power. Well done again. |
You are horribly, inaccurately, incorrect. The Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan in 1989, prior to the fall of the Soviet Union (remember that happened later on in 89 and 90).
As far as acting purely to protect US interests... I think that the residents of former Warsaw Pact countries would spare a blessing for the policies that freed them from the grasp of the Soviet system. Hell, many of the residents of the former Soviet Union would chime in as a chorus.
The short answer is that the US (and others) acted on the assumption that the Soviets must be foiled at almost any price. Send some Stingers to some muslims on Jihad? No problem. Like Churchill vs the Nazis, anyone who would fight the Soviets were to be supported. Support the Mujahideen? You bet! Were the Taliban the only part of the Mujahideen? Nope. Even if they were, what of it? The US and her allies sought to thwart the most heinous system of government ever known on this planet. They sought allies in dark corners. So what? So former allies are now enemies? Go figure, when has that ever happened before...
I'd much rather be facing the possibility of some random fanatic blowing up a building than some unstable person coming to power in what was the former Soviet Union and 'pushing the button'. How about you?
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18-01-2003 03:55
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