15-01-2003 08:25									#1
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I likewise condemn Ubinia. Let the people do what they damn please, so long as it isn't hurting other people. The most successful animals on this planet by population and health are those we've domesticated.

	15-01-2003 08:51									#2
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Why so wishy washy? They should have gone the whole way and banned food.

	15-01-2003 09:47									#3
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That is really oppressive, let the people eat what they want! All animals eat meat(well not all but I alot of them do.) It is a fact that something has to die for people to live.

	15-01-2003 10:11									#4
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let them eat cake! (and meat too)

	15-01-2003 14:38									#5
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i've condemned them long ago. But due to my position in the courts, I cannot take much action until a verdict is reached.

Impossing sanctions is quite useless as I don't trade with them anyway.

	15-01-2003 16:04									#6
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The Republic of Centralis also condemns this blatant attack on civil rights in the so-called 'Free Land' of Ubinia.

	15-01-2003 19:16									#7
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Akiria condemns nobody. Domestic policy is a domestic issue, and I see Ubinias point. Do those animals not have the right to life? I have no, and will not ban eating meet, but I can see both sides of the argument, and commend Ubinia for sticking to its ideals, whether others like them or not.

	15-01-2003 20:42									#8
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What Ubinia allows or disallows it's citizens to do (or not) is an internal policy matter of Ubinia. Eternal Cold respects the right of the government of Ubinia to set policy in the best interests of its citizens as they are seen by the government.

King ColdWizard
Kingdom of Eternal Cold
(meat-eating refugees welcome )

	16-01-2003 01:07									#9
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We view Ubinia's actions with suspicion as such a harsh regulation is an affront to the many good people of Ubinia and their ability to make a sound decision. We will not act, but we are certainly far from impressed by this move.

	16-01-2003 01:47									#10
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The Kingdom of Wine condemns such an action.

Plus... how can people fully taste those red wines such as Lambrusco or Barbera, which gives their best with meat... if they can not eat meat?

Saluti

	16-01-2003 03:48									#11
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus The Republic of Centralis also condemns this blatant attack on civil rights in the so-called 'Free Land' of Ubinia.

It is this that makes Ubinia a Free Land. We do not enslave and slaughter animals for profit or a decadent life, nor do we exploit and rape the land in any other way. The animals we share Ubinia with are given the same respect and treatment we would give anyone else.

We do not consider murder a "civil right".

	16-01-2003 04:35									#12
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Animals do not possess 'civil rights', they are not humans nor capable of having the same level of self-awareness. Providing death is done humanely, my people shall eat meat.

	16-01-2003 04:53									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Animals do not possess 'civil rights'

Apparenlty not, in many of the backwards countries of Apolyton. But in Ubinia, they do.

	16-01-2003 05:22									#14
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quote: Animals do not possess 'civil rights', they are not humans nor capable of having the same level of self-awareness. Providing death is done humanely, my people shall eat meat.

Precisely.

And in any event, once you've banned meat, why stop there? Why not ban vegetable eating as well, to stop the slaughter of plants? Why not outlaw medicine and antibiotics, to halt the deaths of bacteria?

	16-01-2003 05:38									#15
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It is sad to see that some people are not even capable of telling the difference between Animals and Plants.


Plants do not function on the same level that animals do, they do not think and feel. But they are still alive and their body is the forest in whole, rather then their individual self, like with animals. We do not allow our forests to be destroyed. We do not over harvest our land, or cut down trees to clear spaces. If there is room, our farmers will plant crops. If not, they will gather what is needed from the woods.

We treat our forests and land with the same respect.

	16-01-2003 05:43									#16
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I've said it before, but every nation has animales it won't eat, such as dogs anf cats. Why is it so ridiculos that every meat is viewed th same way? The people of Redfern are impressed by the bold actions of the government of Ubinia. Though we do allow meat, it is frowned upon.

There are too many humans on the planet to allow them all to eat meat without any environmental reprocussions.

Ubinia

	16-01-2003 05:56									#17
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quote: I've said it before, but every nation has animales it won't eat, such as dogs anf cats. Why is it so ridiculos that every meat is viewed th same way?

1) Meat is an integral part of the human diet; many scientists believe meat-eating was what brought us to this level in the first place.

2) It is an abomination against civil rights to simply deny the right to eat essential foods.

quote: It is sad to see that some people are not even capable of telling the difference between Animals and Plants. Plants do not function on the same level that animals do, they do not think and feel. But they are still alive and their body is the forest in whole, rather then their individual self, like with animals. We do not allow our forests to be destroyed. We do not over harvest our land, or cut down trees to clear spaces. If there is room, our farmers will plant crops. If not, they will gather what is needed from the woods. We treat our forests and land with the same respect.

Where is the difference between planting crops for lter eating and breeding naimals for later eating?

	16-01-2003 06:02									#18
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus 1) Meat is an integral part of the human diet; many scientists believe meat-eating was what brought us to this level in the first place. 2) It is an abomination against civil rights to simply deny the right to eat essential foods.

There are 6 billions humans on Earth - it is not possible to supply each and every one with enough meat.

Besides, there are just as many scientists who will argue the health benefits of vegetarianism. It is scientific fact that it is more energy efficient to eat things closer to the beggining of the food chain - that is plants rather than animals.

I know vegetarians who are perfectly healthy - beign a vegan is where the problems start.

	16-01-2003 06:11									#19
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quote: There are 6 billions humans on Earth - it is not possible to supply each and every one with enough meat.

By that logic, we should ban food and be done with it, because we can't supply them all with food.

Besides, there's a difference ebtween allowing people to eat meat and guaranteeing them a supply of it.

quote: Besides, there are just as many scientists who will argue the health benefits of vegetarianism. It is scientific fact that it is more energy efficient to eat things closer to the beggining of the food chain - that is plants rather than animals.

However, it is also scientific fact that the human body originally evolved as an omnivore, and is not designed to eat only vegetables - or only meat, for that matter.

quote: I know vegetarians who are perfectly healthy - beign a vegan is where the problems start.

OOC: What does being a vegan entail?

	16-01-2003 08:02									#20
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banning meat! I do not believe in banning things. But I do believe in taxing them

	16-01-2003 08:48									#21
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quote: Originally posted by red_jon Besides, there are just as many scientists who will argue the health benefits of vegetarianism.

And they argued that the world was flat.

And they argued that if you went over the speed of light you would go back in time.

And they argued that Elvis and Britney Spears are the same person.

	16-01-2003 11:33									#22
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You mean Elvis and Britney... they're not the same person?!?!!

AAAAAAAARGH!!!!!

:banmad:

	16-01-2003 11:47									#23
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quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus OOC: What does being a vegan entail?

Refusing to have anything from animals. ie. No cheese or milk, among other things.

	16-01-2003 11:49									#24
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Ah. I can see where the health problems would result from, then.

	16-01-2003 20:51									#25
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb And they argued that the world was flat. And they argued that if you went over the speed of light you would go back in time. And they argued that Elvis and Britney Spears are the same person.

Wow, what a brilliant and reasoned argument, I'm swayed!

There is no conclusive evidence to prove it better either way. It is the choice of Ubinia - of course its going to be harder to be a healthy vegetarian in a country in which most people eat meat, as there are going to be few healthy alternatives.

In a society in which everyone is vegetarian, markets are going to make up for it, by introducing vegetarian substitutes.

Now will people let this stupid issue go? You have no right to tell the people of Ubinia that they have to eat meat, end of story.

	16-01-2003 21:24									#26
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We're not telling them that they have to eat meat. We're telling them that it's a violation of civil liberties to deny people the right to eat meat.

	16-01-2003 21:57									#27
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No-one is going to get between me and my pork burgers.

	17-01-2003 03:10									#28
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I'm getting highly tempted to ban meat next time I get the issue, just to annoy you uber-carnivors

	17-01-2003 04:47									#29
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quote: Now will people let this stupid issue go? You have no right to tell the people of Ubinia that they have to eat meat, end of story.

We're not telling them that. We're telling them that if some members of their population want to eat meat, THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO FORBID THEM. IS that clear enough for you?

	17-01-2003 05:04									#30
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WTF???
SOMEHOW, my country analysis now says "meat-eating is frowned upon."
Great. I'll starve. All I eat besides meat is potatoes, and assorted fruit, nuts and berries, for the most part.