16-01-2003 10:50									#31
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Says the nation that supports rebels who have used nuclear weapons against civilians and has sent troops to support those rebels in murdering civilians.

	16-01-2003 10:50									#32
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The Holy Empire of Sheepsta will stand behind its ally the Republic of New Elysuim

	16-01-2003 10:54									#33
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The Republic of New Elysium does not and will never develop or use any weapons of unconventional means. Therefore, the nuclear explopsion in the city center can not have come from agents acting from orders of Riff City.

	16-01-2003 10:57									#34
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The origin of the weapon is irrelevant. The Republic of New Elysium has not only given full support to the rebels responsible for this atrocity and condemned the inernational community for acting to resore the legitmite government, but has also despatched troops aid in the aggression against the Sovietskii Soyuz.

	16-01-2003 11:01									#35
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It seems very plain to many: the Sovietskii, engaged in imperialistic warefare and practices is the sole entity responsible for this act. Had they acted in a responsible way, this event would not have taken place.

	16-01-2003 11:04									#36
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The only people it would seem 'plain' to would be those currently contained in lunatic asylums. The Sovietskii Soyuz had and has taken no aggressive acts against anyone, and has been the victim of an utterly unprovoked attack by it's neighbours.

	16-01-2003 11:07									#37
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The Sovietskii has attempted time and again to force peace loving nations, such as Sheepsta, to conform to its political policies. The government of New Elysium believes that individual countries should be free from meddling by warmongering imperalists.
Due to its arrogant behavior and cowboy style actions, the blame of this event and war, lies solely on the government of the Sovietskii.

	16-01-2003 11:11									#38
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To repeat: The Sovietskii Spyuz has taken no aggressive action against anyone. It has made it's choice that it will not allow it's government or it's citizens to strengthen foreign dictatorships by trading with them, and has additionally refused to bow to demands to curtail the civil liberties of citizens. In punishment for it's courage, it's people are being slaughtered and those nations who defended it are being threatened with nuclear annihilation.

Last edited by GeneralTacticus on 16-01-2003 at 11:17

	16-01-2003 11:13									#39
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Unfortunately, the government of Centralis is wrong. The Sovietskii has fired 4 non nuclearn missiles at Riff City, destroying large swathes of civilian houses

	16-01-2003 11:18									#40
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Said missiles struck those houses only after being hit and knocked off target Elysian anti-aircraft fire. They were originally targetted at Elysian barracks and military headquarters.

	16-01-2003 16:03									#41
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ODSN members

Sovietskii Soyuz
Jackson
Suomi
Pasiphae
Sheathed
Centralis
Nobodz

Chairman: Tassadar

Several new members have been accepted as per the general policies of the ODSN. Also two were rejected as they refused the idea of nuclear weapons and had it as a precondition.

Suomi introduces the new concept of a chairman to the ODSN. The chairman is elected regularly and he will be the person who represents the coalition. More over this makes it easier for the ODSN to respond to different crisis and act swiftly. However he has to follow the general understanding of the coalition and he's only a representitive person who doesn't have that much power. The first chairman will be president Tassadar as he's the ideological founding figure of the ODSN. However you shouldn't expect too see monumental Tassadar statues in every member country.

OOC: if this develops into something for more than just a military defense coaltion, I'll start keeping a proper information thread for it.

	16-01-2003 16:06									#42
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The Commonwealth of Alecrast would like to petition for membership to the ODSN.

	16-01-2003 16:11									#43
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I have a question for the other members of the alliance: are they prepared to take action to repel the planned Sheepstan invasion of Alecrast?

EDIT: If Alecrast's membership is accepted, the question becomes academic.

	16-01-2003 16:12									#44
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Suomi uses it's unofficial veto right and accepts the membership application of Alecrast.

ODSN members

Alecrast
Centralis
Jackson
Nobodz
Pasiphae
Sheathed
Sovietskii Soyuz
Suomi

OOC: for now, the newest list of members is updated to the last message in which a new member (or several) has been accepted membership. The country in italic typing is currently holding the chairmanship.

	16-01-2003 16:40									#45
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When will the next elections for chairmanship be held?

	16-01-2003 17:19									#46
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The Holy Empire of Sheepsta will not invade Alecrast, if they do the following.

1/ Pay 100 000 fleeces to the family of the departed war minister
2/ All other hostages are to be given back to Sheepsta through the USJ
3/ Accept full responsibilty for their terrorism and Sheepsta's reaction and will not pursue any action against the Lord Protector.

	16-01-2003 17:22									#47
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Well, my personal suggestion would be, in order to save time and also any debacle, is that the chairmanship would be rotate in alphabetic order of countries and the period for one chairman would be 1 month. This would mean that everyone is equal and gets to be chairman (e.g. no elections and PR campaigns). So i.e. Suomi is next and then 1 month after that (my suggestion is that we use actual calendar months), on March 1st Alecrast becomes chairman.

	16-01-2003 17:42									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep The Holy Empire of Sheepsta will not invade Alecrast, if they do the following. 1/ Pay 100 000 fleeces to the family of the departed war minister

A state of war existed between our nations at the time, with us having come to the defence of Sovietskii Soyuz. Unacceptable.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep 2/ All other hostages are to be given back to Sheepsta through the USJ

Already done.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep 3/ Accept full responsibilty for their terrorism and Sheepsta's reaction and will not pursue any action against the Lord Protector.

Our actions were hardly terrorism. They were legitimate tactics of war intended to bring a quick end to the conflict with a minimum of civilian losses.

	16-01-2003 17:49									#49
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That is not the way, The Holy Empire of Sheepsta, and some of your own allies see it. When you specifically target citizens of a nation, even if you are at war it is terrorism. We will not avert the invasion until this happens and we will take it to the Apolyton Courts if we have to once the current Alcrestian government has been deposed.

	16-01-2003 19:11									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep That is not the way, The Holy Empire of Sheepsta, and some of your own allies see it. When you specifically target citizens of a nation, even if you are at war it is terrorism.

Strawman. Your definition of terrorism, not how terrorism is actually defined. We did no more than usual counter-intelligence operations. We could easily have set off your own nukes in your cities. Did we? No. My men disarmed them so that when you pressed the big red button, your cities didn't go up in smoke.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep We will not avert the invasion until this happens and we will take it to the Apolyton Courts if we have to once the current Alcrestian government has been deposed.

The only nation that should be going to the courts is you, for threating other soverign nations with Nuclear attack.

	16-01-2003 20:31									#51
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* Rasbelin comes out from the lurking corner as the UN regional judge of Apolyton and whispers to the lord protector of Sheepsta.

Sue! Sue! Sue!

	16-01-2003 21:00									#52
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I agree. If there has been a misdemeanor, feel free to take legal action against them.

On a different note. Has the Sovietskii Soyuz actually been invaded by New Elysium? Are New Elysium troops actually fighting inside Sovietskii borders?

	16-01-2003 21:19									#53
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http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...20&pagenumber=1

First 4 pages. The New Elysium troops seem to be trying to blend into the population, rather poorly I might add.

	16-01-2003 22:41									#54
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I have looked throught those pages, and have not found any evidence of an invasion of Soviet terratory by New Elysium, merely of supplying rebels. While that is illegal, they have not invaded the Sovietskii Soyuz. Therefore New Elysium is under Akirian protection, until such a time as they invade another nation. Likewise, the Sovietskii Soyuz is under Akirian protection until they attack another nation. If any alliance attacks New Elysium, pre-emptively, they will be met with force by Akiria.

quote: Alecrast Yokuza units are already in place to capture and/or assassinate other key members of your families and your governments. If you want them and your children safe, we suggest you surrender peacefully and begin immediate payment of war reperations to the Sovietskii and other involved nations.

Akiria condemns stronly the actions of Archaic and Alecrast. If you assassinate their families, we will assassinate yours. If you feel they are in the wrong, take it up with the court, otherwise, release your prisoners. Political prisoners violate human rights, and must be released.

	16-01-2003 23:21									#55
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I would like to join this alliance. My military is one of the best in the Apolyton region.

	17-01-2003 04:58									#56
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quote: I have looked throught those pages, and have not found any evidence of an invasion of Soviet terratory by New Elysium, merely of supplying rebels. While that is illegal, they have not invaded the Sovietskii Soyuz. Therefore New Elysium is under Akirian protection, until such a time as they invade another nation. Likewise, the Sovietskii Soyuz is under Akirian protection until they attack another nation. If any alliance attacks New Elysium, pre-emptively, they will be met with force by Akiria.

The President of new Elysium personally admitted that Elysian volunteer troops were invading the Sovietskii Soyuz and attacking civilian targets.

quote: That is not the way, The Holy Empire of Sheepsta, and some of your own allies see it. When you specifically target citizens of a nation, even if you are at war it is terrorism. We will not avert the invasion until this happens and we will take it to the Apolyton Courts if we have to once the current Alcrestian government has been deposed.

Terrorism is, at the most basic level, 'the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.'

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

I would say that threatening an entire nation with nuclear anihilation would be a rather bigger use of terror than kidnapping or assassianting members of government, who are legitimate targets in war.

	17-01-2003 05:35									#57
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The Sovietskii has launched 4 non nuclear weapons at our civiliam centers. Tacticus did not condem these attacks, in fact he lauded them. Elysian troops in the homeland will fight until every last one of them is killed and the land scorched black as coal. The Sovietskii and other aggressors will have conquered just enough land to bury their dead.

	17-01-2003 05:48									#58
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quote: The Sovietskii has launched 4 non nuclear weapons at our civiliam centers. Tacticus did not condem these attacks, in fact he lauded them. Elysian troops in the homeland will fight until every last one of them is killed and the land scorched black as coal. The Sovietskii and other aggressors will have conquered just enough land to bury their dead.

I did not 'laud' the attacks; I stated that the only reason they hit your civilian areas was because they were knocked off course by your anti-aircraft fire.

	17-01-2003 05:51									#59
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Knocked off course? What sort of bull is that? Anti-aircraft is believe is against aircraft. These are ballistic missiles, which fly far and wide and high. We have no protection against these infernal machines of the devil, for we are a peaceloving people who is more interested in building then destroying.

	17-01-2003 05:55									#60
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We know this because we tracked them by satellite. We take an interest in where missiles actually fall, so as to refute propaganda such as this. And we did see the point-defense system you have placed around your major barracks and government centres open fire and destroy their engines, causing them to crash into civilian areas.