15-01-2003 20:29									#1
	Mass Regicide exploits Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Most of us that have PTW would probably know of using Mass Regicide mode Kings to explore and get unnatural Tech advantages by visiting every goodie huts around.

But I just found out yesterday about using these "Kings" to find other civs early and take their workers/settlers by force. This would start a war with that civ. However since they never really do anything with their kings, much less attack with them, you can be safely within their borders fortifying.

The AI programming is a little messed up like this. I think they keep pop rushing defenders so their cities never grow bigger. Make sure u stand on the best terrain that have the most food so they cant work it.

They will never attack you, send any workers out or settlers ever again. You can "contain" the AI to 1 or 2 cities that they have built. Later on you can send a warrior to pillage improvements around the city, or completely annihilate them.

I played the game on Regent.

	16-01-2003 02:31									#2
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I solved the problem of combatant Kings inadvertently with another change to my personal mod: I multiplied the base value of all attack and defense numbers for all standard and UU units by 10. I made that change to allow for a more gradual and signifigant change in numbers, but it has the upshot of making even a lowly warrior 10 times more powerful than a King. Not such a hot idea to send them out exploring when they're as good as defenseless.

	16-01-2003 02:39									#3
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Zurai I solved the problem of combatant Kings inadvertently with another change to my personal mod: I multiplied the base value of all attack and defense numbers for all standard and UU units by 10. I made that change to allow for a more gradual and signifigant change in numbers,

I'm unclear on what you mean here. If you multiply them all by ten, then the gradient shouldn't changes. All the unit relationships would be exactly the same.

	16-01-2003 06:22									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The AI doesn't know how to play with the new PTW rules. Use default rules if you want a good challenge against computer opponents.

	16-01-2003 20:35									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Why did they release PTW then if the AI doesn't know how to play by its rule???

I just like easy win once in a while

	16-01-2003 20:55									#6
	Suffering from ads?

It was my understanding that the alternate win conditions introduced with PtW were mainly intended for MP games, to add more flavor and shorter games.

	16-01-2003 21:10									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 I'm unclear on what you mean here. If you multiply them all by ten, then the gradient shouldn't changes. All the unit relationships would be exactly the same.

Not if he leaves the king unit unchanged...

	16-01-2003 21:11									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Bluefrog It was my understanding that the alternate win conditions introduced with PtW were mainly intended for MP games, to add more flavor and shorter games.

Indeed, none of the new victory modes were meant to be played against the AI.

	16-01-2003 21:56									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 I'm unclear on what you mean here. If you multiply them all by ten, then the gradient shouldn't changes. All the unit relationships would be exactly the same.

I'm sorry, I was unclear. I've modified the numbers beyond the x10 change to provide a better distribution. The only relevant portion was the fact that it made Kings useless for scouting in force.

	16-01-2003 21:56									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

In fact, I think that Elimation aginst the AI would be a peace of cake. Send a couple of Archers out looking for an AI settler, wait for it to form a town, and take the city, killing that civ.

	17-01-2003 01:00									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Either regicide or elim is very easy- in regicide, form a ROP pact with everyone ahead of time, investigate to find the King, move 20 troops in under legal auspices, smear city, rinse and repeat. You might have to fight your way in the last time or two, but otherwise....

	25-01-2003 05:35									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by minke19104 Why did they release PTW then if the AI doesn't know how to play by its rule??? I just like easy win once in a while

because regicide, mass regicide, victory points, capture the princess, etc. are multiplayer victory options.

regicide isn't difficult against the AI: the king is always in the capital, which isn't better defended than any other city.

why was it released without that ability?
probably because AI-programming is one of the hardest things about a game like this. it would need a lot of new algorithms and triggers for this...