15-01-2003 23:14									#1
	ELECTION: Minister of Defense Increase Your PM Length

This poll will be open for 5 days, till January 20th, approximately 7:15pm GMT

We have two candidate, Maquiladora and Turambar.

nomination thread

	15-01-2003 23:39									#2
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i'll wait for some campaigning here.

What do you think our policy towrds the Austrians should be?

	16-01-2003 00:08									#3
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I've played against Maq enough in CTP1 PBEM (and got my but kicked around enough )to know that he'd do a good job at keeping our borders defended :b ...so there's my vote

	16-01-2003 00:30									#4
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quote: What do you think our policy towrds the Austrians should be?

I think that for the moment we should act friendly towards them in order to get their map from them. Once we have that we can continue to build up our forces and wipe them off the map as soon as we are able.

At the moment though getting their map is a must.

If I am elected then I promise to follow the will of the citizens of Lemuria and work closely with the Minister of Diplomacy when dealing with other nations.

If elected I will also found the "Lemurian War Acadamy" where citizens of Lemuria can create and discuss plans regarding forthcoming military operations before they are polled to get the apporval of the general public.

And finally remember, that each vote for Turambar is a nail in the coffin of our enemies!

	16-01-2003 00:49									#5
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My policy is to defend our borders by all means available and unavailable. How can we achieve this? By establishing labour order in the workshops, by employing all the workers needed, by strengthening and enlarging the equipment, by precise checking on productivity, and above all by a proper use of this equipment in battle.

We are stronger than we were. And we are growing stronger with every hour. Sound, harmonious work is going on all along the front. Not a single hour must be lost, and not a single hour will be lost. And today we feel more capable than ever before of dealing the first blow.

So it has come to this, my policy has and will always be, a preemptive strike on the Austrian heartland. If we delay our military build up? Then we fail. We cannont keep waiting, army discipline is still lacking in our units, especially the more backward ones. Fighting takes place in a disordered, unsystematic and often aimless and senseless way. Men fight not because it is necessary to fight but because they have swords in their hands and shields on their arms. They fight not because they see the enemy but because they are afraid of him. When my task has been accomplished, no warrior will ever find himself short of courage, and the Lemurian Army will really become invincible!

	16-01-2003 00:56									#6
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I vote Turambar - just to give everyone a chance, and provide variation .

	16-01-2003 01:10									#7
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quote: So it has come to this, my policy has and will always be, a preemptive strike on the Austrian heartland. If we delay our military build up? Then we fail.

Austria has a larger military and a larger number of cities than us. Attacking now could all but destroy us if it went wrong and maybe even if it went right.

We currently only have two warriors! They have at least double that and before long hordes of barbarians will be coming to sack our only city.

We must build up our forces to ensure the defense of our homland and make sure that when we strike we strike with speed and power to cripple and eventually destroy the Austrians!

	16-01-2003 01:11									#8
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I vote for Turambar as he is a voice of reason and wisdom compared to the warmongerish propaganda of Maquiladora. Although he is a brave warrior, Maq's plan for a preemptive strike are premature, it will get us all killed!

	16-01-2003 01:23									#9
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The Austrians wont listen to reasoning, if we wait any longer and "defend" only, we will die on our knees! Yes we are smaller and have an inferior army but if we strike with precision they will fall from within!

	16-01-2003 01:33									#10
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Far too much could go wrong if we send all our forces (both warriors) against the Austrians now.

The fact is we know so little about the world we're in. Whilst our army is off fighting the Austrians our capital is left undefended!

New enemies could come from North, South or East without us having much or any warning and take our only undefended city!

We must bide our time, get their map, build our forces, and discover more of the world around us before any rash decisions are made!

Austria will fall but we must first prepare!

	16-01-2003 01:38									#11
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I never said send the army we have now to fight, i said build up and attack as soon as possible. I said we must not delay the build up, some have suggested building Wonders etc but troops is what we need (after a second settler) If we defend too long then we've already lost...

	16-01-2003 01:45									#12
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quote: If we defend too long then we've already lost...

If we have no defense then we loose. It's not a case of either defend or attack. We can and must be able to do both.

When we attack Austria our homeland must be secure from any other attacks.

	16-01-2003 01:51									#13
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Sorry Maq, I just don't like your policy

	16-01-2003 01:51									#14
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quote: If we delay our military build up? Then we fail.

...does not mean attack as soon as possible. It means build up troops as soon as possible, theres a difference

	16-01-2003 01:53									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy Sorry Maq, I just don't like your policy

Actually my policy is identical to Turambar's, except he wants to defend when we've built up the military, and i want to put it to use.

	16-01-2003 01:58									#16
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I just saw that too Maq (and edited it out).

It's been a long day......

	16-01-2003 02:01									#17
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I vote for Maq.

	16-01-2003 02:01									#18
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quote: Actually my policy is identical to Turambar's, except he wants to defend when we've built up the military, and i want to put it to use.

No... I don't want to attack now because we can't defend ourselves if we do. Too much can go wrong now.

I want to build up the military so we can defend our city and wipe out the Austrians.

	16-01-2003 02:03									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Turambar If we have no defense then we loose. It's not a case of either defend or attack. We can and must be able to do both. When we attack Austria our homeland must be secure from any other attacks.

Youll failed to note that we simply dont have A) the production output and B) the right units, to be on the defensive. Defending and counter-attacking is for strong nations with superior technology, which we dont have, we need to cripple them as soon as possible. Theres a time for peace and this aint it.

	16-01-2003 02:19									#20
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quote: Youll failed to note that we simply dont have A) the production output and B) the right units, to be on the defensive.

I think that it would a good idea that once we've built up our invasion force, leaving a warrior in Lemur City / El Dorado would be a good idea to stop someone else walkig in and destroying us.

quote: Theres a time for peace and this aint it.

This a time for peace to get their map and to build up our forces.

To quote a Metallica song; "To secure peace is to prepare for war".

	16-01-2003 02:27									#21
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The thing is we're going to be fighting against the AI who will maybe send 10% of his forces after us and the other 90% are going to be wondering around aimlessly on the map. They have at most 2 cities and 1 settler and we already know exactly where one of his cities is just by looking at his culutral radius.

I say destroy the settle to stop Austria from getting ahead of use, quickly build two more units, and then destroy the city we know about. Then we'll be able to look at his remaining cultural borders and know where his last city is located.

	16-01-2003 02:29									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Turambar I think that it would a good idea that once we've built up our invasion force, leaving a warrior in Lemur City / El Dorado would be a good idea to stop someone else walkig in and destroying us.

I think its a given that we'll garrison at least 2 units inside the capital. Not being defensive doesnt mean abandoning the whole thing.

quote: This a time for peace to get their map and to build up our forces. To quote a Metallica song; "To secure peace is to prepare for war".

Okay so we both agree to build up forces but we wont get their map now, not until we've seriously overrun them with troops and we threaten them for it, but by then itll be near useless to us.

	16-01-2003 02:37									#23
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Oerdin,
We're playing against Frenzy AI here, who *will* send units into the attack. Also, the AI received 4 Settlers at the start of the game and plenty of gold to rush-buy Settlers and other units. Most likely he'll have gotten Ballistics and/or Bronze Working as starting advances. He may well have 6 cities and several Archers and Hoplites already. We at least need their map first to figure out what we're facing...

	16-01-2003 15:09									#24
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Maq, it’s nothing personal – it’s survival. I don’t think sticking our heads in a beehive this early will get us anywhere.

And Turambar’s Metallica quote won me over.

	16-01-2003 18:02									#25
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7 votes each. This looks like it'll finish very close so let me re-state my views on what we should do:

• Get their map as soon as we can.
  
• Explore the area around us to find huts / ruins which may give us technology or units to use against the Austrians. And to find any other neighbours we might have.
  
• Build up our forces as quick as possible to a level in which we can be confident of successfully invading Austria.
  
• Destroy the Austrians.
  

	16-01-2003 21:32									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Locutus Oerdin, We're playing against Frenzy AI here, who *will* send units into the attack.

The Frenzy AI has a downside, they don't defend their cities well. When they come after us, they'll probably wind up dancing around our cities doing whatever pillaging they can...so while their soldiers are busy playing with their tiddly winks outside of our somewhat defended cities, we take the rest of our troops and take over their undefended/ barely defended cities.

	17-01-2003 01:30									#27
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Centrifuge has the right idea, we just dont have the production power or units to wait and fight man for man.

	17-01-2003 01:52									#28
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quote: Originally posted by centrifuge The Frenzy AI has a downside, they don't defend their cities well. When they come after us, they'll probably wind up dancing around our cities doing whatever pillaging they can...so while their soldiers are busy playing with their tiddly winks outside of our somewhat defended cities, we take the rest of our troops and take over their undefended/ barely defended cities.

Well I tested this game a little bit playing in Barbarian mode and there was at leats one player killed and guess who it was on difficuilt level hard.

OK here is my question to the candidates how would you try to get their map. (Being friendly by every price or using threats if necessary.)

-Martin

	17-01-2003 02:15									#29
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Ive played enough SAP games to know that until you either find a diplomatic civ, you exchange maps on the turn you meet them or you pay them tribute for a long time you wont get their map for a very very long time as long as theyre more powerful.

Having their map would little change our goal anyway, if we were nice to them for a long time just to get their map they would be even more powerful than they are now, what good would a map do us then...

	17-01-2003 02:43									#30
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It's a tide!!