22-01-2003 22:18									#91
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Grigor Your preference for defending with horses instead of phalanx is interesting and in this game compelling with all the distances.

DaveV knows his ICS!

I am a recent convert to defending with horses/warriors rather than Phalanx. A phalanx defends better than a warrior or horse, obviously... but will probably lose to a legion/elephant, and maybe to a chariot or multiple horses.

Using horses as defenders gives you the ability to attack your enemies before they attack your city - plus they are invaluable vs barb archers which defend at 1, not 2. If your horse loses, moreover, the city doesn't lose a population point.

And of course, for martial law, 2 warriors are better than 1 phalanx. Sprinkle in a few horses in trouble areas and you have a good defensive scheme, proactive rather than reactive.

When I build Phalanxes, I do so where the surrounding terrain (which enemies attack from) is rough, meaning that my horse defender might have trouble dispatching the attacking unit.

	23-01-2003 03:48									#92
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

"Also, @obiwan18 - could you install 2.42 in a diff directory and still play?"

SCG

My original Civ2 cd no longer works, IIRC it's 5 years old anyways. Could this work with the CiC cd which I do have on me?

*thinks about how to do this*

What if I were to create two civ 2 folders, both with the MGE updates, and then reinstall the CiC version over one of the MGE folders. Would this work? Would I have to delete some of the 'extra' files needed for MGE?

Suggestions greatly appreciated.

	23-01-2003 04:55									#93
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quote: Originally posted by DaveV 2500 1 gold - I like a bit more in reserve than that.

sorry about that - originally i had played to 2450 so used old save that had the rush-buying - i would have normally held off rushbuying when the next player was taking over that turn

quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Could this work with the CiC cd which I do have on me?

looks like CiC is version 2.62, so wouldn't be loadable with 2.42 although you would still be able to load 2.42 games

	23-01-2003 09:23									#94
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Got a DiskDr & I've already fixed 2 CDs.

spoiler(highlight to read): If it is only the Civ2.exe you need a no-CD hack will take care of it. Most of the other files you can get here and there.

	23-01-2003 13:15									#95
	Remove this text

OK will be on it soonest..

Dave - that was my favourite big toe

SG[1]

	23-01-2003 13:46									#96
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Straybow- that sounds fine. Could you PM me please?

BTW how does one do spoilers?

edit:

spoiler(highlight to read): ming doesn't like that, straybow.

	23-01-2003 20:54									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow Got a DiskDr & I've already fixed 2 CDs. spoiler(highlight to read): If it is only the Civ2.exe you need a no-CD hack will take care of it. Most of the other files you can get here and there.

Stray,

A little help please. When I highlight nothing happens. Where does one find decoder ring??

Monk

	24-01-2003 02:57									#98
	Rabid Aggressive Rodent takes the helm Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Nothin' Fancy Succession

The Gits having a Thursday Session...

1750 = 50 CF Vikings; 6 cities - 6 settlers - guess who went last? Madrid Settler pre-empted to Trireme - plan to rush Temple and start WoW;

1700 = Barcelona; Vikings broke;
1650 = Currency -> Trade; Vikings still broke;
1600 = Barbarian landing near Hello there - Horse rushed; Vikings nada
1550 = Chariot kills Barb Legion becomes Vet - gamble unit against 150 for King ...; Vikings War
1500 = Barb Legion goes to red, but stout Archer dies; Vikings (now Pathetic) War;
1450 = Barb Legion commits harakiri; King captured 150g; We have slipped to Mighty; Vikings still broke;
1400 = Temple in Madrid; start Settler (for future Caravan); Valladolid; Vikings won't talk;
1350 = Saragossa; Vikings (Inadequate) broke; We are Supreme;
1300 = Vikings not talking;
1250 = Trade -> Pottery; Vikings offer Wheel - we say no way are you slowing down Pottery - they then offer 50g for CF - gratefully accepted;
1200 = 200,000; Accept Peace with warm furry vikings - who have brought up an archer and a phalanx to threaten our choke point;
1150 = nothing much
1100 = much tickling
1050 = Cadiz; All emphasis now on research - Pottery (for the Gardens) now two turns away as are the requisite 4 caravans - hint, hint!
1000 = Pottery (lucky) -> Mysticism; Vikings opt for War again and lose a Settler;

We have two fortified Food caravans in Madrid; one en route and one just completed in Central Beach; The caravan in Barca is Beads (demanded in Madrid) caravan from Seville which will give our treasury and abacus a nice boost; The Gardens shall be Spanish!! (or else - said in robust constructive criticism mode ) The Vikings have been left alone for far too long they have The Wheel - and would have given it to us had we demanded tribute earlier to the detriment of our Pottery research; We have many workers out to sea to get the arrows - this might well be revised now The Gardens are ours.

Passing the baton (and the Gardens) SG[1] with (2)'s very able assistance

Attachment: fe_b1000.zip
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

	24-01-2003 04:52									#99
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Grigor Uh - I have 2.42, I thought. I certainly do not have multiplayer. I looked up in the About Civ II and I got all the credits but no further info. It is a Mac version, but that should be no problem, right???? So, I used the browse button on the reply screen and saved it from my disc. Is there another way? Please help.

hi ,

are you playing a MAC version on a PC

have a nice MAC day

	24-01-2003 04:56									#100
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Good turns, SG [1]

Looks like LaFayette is up!

	24-01-2003 04:56									#101
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

hi ,

Grigor , a save posted might be intresting , .....

have a nice MAC day

	24-01-2003 05:03									#102
	Re: Rabid Aggressive Rodent takes the helm Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits 1750 = 50 CF Vikings; 6 cities - 6 settlers - guess who went last?

and then the SG's build twice as many cities, with yet 4 more settlers in production

do we have an SSC in mind? Madrid probably wouldn't have been my first guess as there are no visible specials and only 4 sea spaces (of course i haven't tried out the hut-finder program yet, so maybe they now something i don't?

wonder how many cities there'll be before it gets back around to me

	24-01-2003 08:43									#103
	Back on track Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

old play list; Shakespeare's Theatre makes all citizens content

Straybow
SCG
SG[1]
DaveV
STYOM
Lafayette
SG(2)

Last edited by Straybow on 05-02-2003 at 05:02

	24-01-2003 13:26									#104
	Re: Rabid Aggressive Rodent takes the helm Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits Nothin' Fancy Succession Passing the baton (and the Gardens) SG[1] with (2)'s very able assistance

I noticed in your save that in four cities you used an ordinary ocean square when a fishie square was available. Why is this? Are you simply slowing the growth of these cities or is there something more subtle?

RJM at Sleepers (who is confused, but ready to learn)

	24-01-2003 14:37									#105
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yes - desperate times call for desperate measures - in the absence of the Gardens happiness is a major issue and I felt it necessary to limit growth whilst maximising arrows (to get Pottery - which actually arrived one turn before I expected it) hence the use of ocean squares -- unorthodox, but useful in the short term. As it was the new cities were founded with a red face (all except, strangely, the last one to the East of Madrid which squeezed out the extra arrows to get Pottery).

Obviously, this strategy is sub-optimal in many ways, but these rather peculiar circumstances required it (IMHO of course)

Hope this helps, SG[1]

	24-01-2003 14:44									#106
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SCG - what's a SSC? - this is the RAR playing. not some perfectionist wimp

Somewhat more seriously, our chunk of real estate is sorely lacking in trade specials, we have as yet to find a decent site for a SSC - in the meantime tasking a horde of sleazy cities to produce three or four arrows each is a fair substitute - see my post above.

SG[1]

keep the robust constructive criticism coming guys - i can take it as well as dish it

	24-01-2003 17:35									#107
	Tired of ads?

I see the save... I should be able to download and play it after work, or over the weekend!

	24-01-2003 23:13									#108
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Panag -

My saves are posted on the bottom of p. 2 and much of p. 3 of this thread. I can download them from Apolyton on my own computer by selecting the Download to Disk function and then renaming the file using a .sav suffix. That downloaded file opens on my computer, which of course is a Mac, so the problem is probably not Apolyton's. When I download MGE saves in same way I cannot open them. I can open zipped 2.42 saves by using stuffit expander. If you have any suggestions, I would like to hear about them, because I certainly enjoyed playing the turns in this succession game although not the aftermath so much...

	25-01-2003 00:57									#109
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Grigor Panag - My saves are posted on the bottom of p. 2 and much of p. 3 of this thread. I can download them from Apolyton on my own computer by selecting the Download to Disk function and then renaming the file using a .sav suffix. That downloaded file opens on my computer, which of course is a Mac, so the problem is probably not Apolyton's. When I download MGE saves in same way I cannot open them. I can open zipped 2.42 saves by using stuffit expander. If you have any suggestions, I would like to hear about them, because I certainly enjoyed playing the turns in this succession game although not the aftermath so much...

hi ,

this may sound funny , but try a virus scanner , nothing seems wrong at this stage , but try a firus scan with updated info , what OS are you running , programs , etc , .....

do you have both civ II and civ III installed
it has given problems before with older OS , ....

are you fully updated on all your programs and OS

have you tried a diskcheck

what about a reformat of the harddrives

have a nice day

	25-01-2003 04:29									#110
	The reign of STYOM the indecisive Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

1000 BC: Things look good We can have the Gardens in a couple of turns, via Caravans. We're OK, demographically. There's no money to tickle with. We're Supreme, and warring with the Vikes.

Goals... finish HG and plop down a few cities. Explore. Trade if feasible. Find a suitable site for a science city, and grow it and/or Madrid.

Viking Chariot wipes out our southern Horseman unit

975: Rush Warriors in Cadiz, so we can use the Chariot there for exploring/defence of south frontier.

950: Beads Seville>Madrid, 16 g.

STYOM mutters about the Vike chariot running loose south of Madrid.

Peace with Vikings, no tribute.

925: Hanging Gardens in Madrid; celebration. Workers rearranged to max shields. Science rate goes to 6 turns, but we should get Mysticsm in 2 turns regardless.

900: No Tribute from Vikings. Vikings appear to have built a city at 59,53, per their map.

875: Mysticism discovered. Lots of choices - Writing to give us Diplomats and a head start to Philosophy>Mono? Polytheism for Ellies and again on the route to Monotheism..? Feudalism (no); Seafaring (not yet); Wheel (not instead of Polytheism!). STYOM arbitrarily decides on Writing as our next choice - it also leads to Republic, of course.

STYOM fiddles with worker placement and settles on 7 turns/tech placement. We could get to 6/tech at the cost of a lot of shields by working oceans squares, but the shields going to caravans should offset that.

850: Settlers in Saragossa.

Americans start Pyramids.

825: Settlers in Salamanca and Hello There. Bilbao founded.

800: No Tribute from Vikings.

775: Settlers in Valencia. Granada founded. Science now 6 turns/tech.

750: Nothing of consequence except that the home continent has been circumnavigated.

725: Writing discovered now researching Literacy towards Philosophy and Republic (and towards Mono for the aggressive souls among us).

50 g Tribute from Vikings.

Madrid grows to size 5 and then a Settler is added to make size 6. Elvis is hired so celebrations resume next turn (changing Lux to 20 doesn't help... should have seen that coming - Lux rate certainly will help next turn when celebration resumes )

700: Taxes now 1/2/7; Elvis fired in Madrid.

Hladir, undefended size 1 Viking city is spotted SE of Bilbao!! A conundrum presents itself. We are on our way to Republic. We are a peaceful people (except DaveV ) The Vikings have been quite kind of late.

We ask for tribute and get another 25 g... was hoping for war. Oh well! Here's a fine opportunity to test whether size 1 cities are always razed

Hladir destroyed, netting us 5 gold and Wheel. Workers move offshore in Madrid - 'van next turn.

****************
Madrid is fine at size 6 until we get Mono, probably - Colossus is an option there, as is a library. No decent SSC sites found. We have lots of gold, and a messed up reputation. Oops. Our cities are pumping out Settlers and Caravans, and we've moved up in the Demographics.

Over to you La Fayette

Attachment: fe_b700.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).

Last edited by Six Thousand Year Old Man on 25-01-2003 at 04:40

	25-01-2003 04:59									#111
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits SCG - what's a SSC? - this is the RAR playing. not some perfectionist wimp Somewhat more seriously, our chunk of real estate is sorely lacking in trade specials, we have as yet to find a decent site for a SSC - in the meantime tasking a horde of sleazy cities to produce three or four arrows each is a fair substitute - see my post above. SG[1] keep the robust constructive criticism coming guys - i can take it as well as dish it

Well, given the land as i knew it back in 2500, I was looking towards where Bilbao was founded as the best choice - close to Madrid, 5 sea spaces (including a fish)and did have silk and a wheat - which could become 2 wheat for growth and 2 silk for science if so desired. Looking at the map now, it still looks like the best spot

Of course I did miss quite a bit of strategizing during the 2002 year. Is silk no longer considered a trade special? I know wheat is still good for einsteins

	25-01-2003 05:15									#112
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I suppose Bilbao is a decent SSC site - no rivers, which is something I look for - but I'd be hesitant to really develop the area with the Vikings around. Definitely, we need a buffer city near the choke point to guard our development. And Bilbao has a lot of swamp around, too... lots of work needed there.

	25-01-2003 08:09									#113
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Question if you don't mind, SG[1]...

Is there some way you know before doing it that the hidden specials at (58,30) and (60,24) are NOT going to be trade specials??

Monk

	25-01-2003 14:52									#114
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Silk is a trade special - and no there is currently no way to KNOW, but the special groups of 8 have IIRC 4 distinct patterns and retain that pattern round the 'band' so once the map is opened up a bit it is possible to make a damn good guess - which I readily admit I have not yet tried to do on the sites you mention.

SG[1]

	25-01-2003 21:43									#115
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

SG[1],

That's what I was wondering. So, if I read you correctly, does the pheasant under Saragossa indicate the likelihood of more pheasants as nearby hidden specials, rather than silk??

Monk

	25-01-2003 23:01									#116
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BM - It depends upon the resource seed of the map. Some seeds mix trade specials others don't. The best way to understand this is by creating a world in Map Editor and keep changing the resource seed. Otherwise just reveal the map in some games and the various patterns become clear.

-----------------------------

SG(2)

	26-01-2003 06:55									#117
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits BM - It depends upon the resource seed of the map. Some seeds mix trade specials others don't. The best way to understand this is by creating a world in Map Editor and keep changing the resource seed. Otherwise just reveal the map in some games and the various patterns become clear. ----------------------------- SG(2)

Scouser Twoser,

Hopefully others may be in the dark as much as I am, for I must ask, what is a resource seed??

And how will revealing the map make hidden specials (and what they will become when changed) become clear??

Sorry but I am not understanding...Thanks.

Monk

	26-01-2003 07:09									#118
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Hopefully others may be in the dark as much as I am, for I must ask, what is a resource seed?? And how will revealing the map make hidden specials (and what they will become when changed) become clear?? Sorry but I am not understanding...Thanks. Monk

I haven't played with the hut finder program yet (keep meaning to )

a seed is the initial number used to start the 'random' number generator. Incedentally if you go into the map generator, one of the options under tools is to set the resource seed. As SG(2) mentions, each seed (or number) creates a different layout of the resources. Playing with that can reveal some general patterns which have been discussed to some extent in the strategy forum among other places.

Anyway, once you start recognizing the patterns, you can start to see them in actual games and make educated guesses as to what should be where

	26-01-2003 07:27									#119
	Put an end to popups!

Thanks, SCG. I'll check that out.

Monk

	26-01-2003 07:46									#120
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

BM - Reveal some maps via cheat in a few games. Follow the patterns of specials from west - east. Sometimes you will see groups in bands of non trade specials like pheasant/coal/fish but other times there will be silk/wine/whale. Some seeds group the trade or non trade specials whilst other seeds mix them! If you are on a map which groups them, the hidden special is easier to second guess. Just from memory I think the lower resource seeds as recorded in Hut Finder tend to be grouped...all trade or non trade. The joker special is Gold which always appears with the non trade specials.

If you have map editor play with the seed generator. Start at 0 and work up to 63 to see the different configurations of specials.

------------------------

SG(2)