16-01-2003 11:22									#1
	Do you use Barbarians as an income source? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I find barbarians very useful as an easy source of income. I normally keep some land free to allow barbarian settlement to establish. Every third, or sometimes even second turns, I send couple of units to do "harvest".

I find this especially useful in early game when money flow is restricted during despotism and monarchy.
Also that 25g per village allows me to maintan larger army under rep or demo govts.

Any more ideas or clever ways on how to exploit barbs?

	16-01-2003 11:31									#2
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There's the oft-mentioned Elite generation.

	16-01-2003 11:44									#3
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Unfortunately barb exploiting doesn't work well on emperor and deity. But they are easy targets on lower levels.

I don't make "barbarian reservations". In the long run you will get more income by building cities there.

	16-01-2003 16:15									#4
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The only time I make a reservation is if I am isolated and have a chunk of crappy tundra.

	16-01-2003 21:14									#5
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This strat works on lower levels, but not on higher ones. Besides their usually not worth the hassle IMO. It's nice to gain a few easy gold, but after awhile the gold isn't that important anymore.

	16-01-2003 22:01									#6
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There's two disadvantage to Barbs as extra income:

1. Risk of Massive Barbarbarin Uprising if there's a camp around when the 2nd civ enters the middle ages. (Same code is in place for the other eras, it's just rare for their to be a signficiant amout of unsettled territory left entering the other two eras.) The higher the difficulty level, the sooner this will occur, all else being equal. In addition, all else being equal, this will occur faster on Pangena maps faster than maps where there are "lost" civs.

2. (PTW only) : Barbs are more intelgent in PTW than Civ III.

	16-01-2003 22:50									#7
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn Barbs are more intelgent in PTW than Civ III.

Very true. I used to indulge in modest barb harvesting -- both for gold, and to promote that first round of units that I built pre-barracks.
But PTW has reprogrammed the barbs to be much less predictable, much more of a nuisance -- pillaging, bypassing defenses to target vulnerable cities/workers. Now I just want to clear them off the board, so that I can align my military visa-vi my AI rivals.
And then, as others have noted, barbarian odds rise as the game's difficulty level rises. Over the last few months I've been transitioning from monarch to emperor level. The difference is sharp, so far as barbs are concerned. At emperor, it's risky to try taking them out with even odds (e.g., with a reg warrior across flat terrain). At deity, it's foolish to try.

	16-01-2003 23:33									#8
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I'm happy to get the 25 gold from raiding an encampment, but rarely will I attempt to "harvest" barb camps. Especially since switching over to PTW... they're a much bigger PitA now.

There are conditions under which I would consider attempting it:

If I was playing a civ with a hardy UU and had an isolated pennisula of crappy terrain (tundra) blocked off such that other civs would have to sail around to get there. "Hardy UUs" include Bowmen and Numidian Mercs. Of course, Legionaries, Immortals, and Gallic Swordsmen are as hardy, if not hardier, but I typically do not hook up my iron until I can upgrade a decent number of those units from vet warriors, and by then I'm not dealing with barbs: I'm picking fights with other civs.

The Bowman is probably the best barb killer out there. 2/2/1, 20 shields. The Jag warrior is also solid, but has a much higher chance of getting killed when barb horsemen show up. Still, the Aztecs can clean up on barbs early in the game.

-Arrian

	17-01-2003 00:01									#9
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Call me wimp but I always play with no barbs

	17-01-2003 00:16									#10
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I don't harvest them, but I certainly go after the encampments when I'm out exploring.

	17-01-2003 03:47									#11
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I occasional go for the camps, especially if I need the dough! Includes PTW (PitA that they are) and I have ALWAYS played with 0% combat adavantage against barbarians. Since PTW however, I have stepped down from raging hordes one level.

	17-01-2003 06:30									#12
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I harvest if it makes sense (see Arrian's post).

I've tried, when Expansionist, to do the follow-the-leader thing and introduce my neighbors to some Barbs, but without much success.

I do enjoy razing like crazy in the modern age, and getting MA promotions to elite on the backs of Barb Warriors!

	17-01-2003 07:36									#13
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The 'new' barbs have a few weaknesses too though. There a good thread about it on CFC. They really like their settlers.. so much you can have them running form town to town without doing anything.

	17-01-2003 07:41									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit Call me wimp but I always play with no barbs

Strange as it may sound, I think less barbs is harder then alot of them. Sure they will hamper/annoy you too, but the AI usually has more problems with them then a human.

I did a debug game a while ago, and when the AI has no offensive units in it's city, it will not come out to attack anything.
So even at regent level where your chances against one barb are more then good, they will let one warrior pillage the whole town and keep their workers locked up.

	17-01-2003 20:20									#15
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn 1. Risk of Massive Barbarbarin Uprising if there's a camp around when the 2nd civ enters the middle ages. (Same code is in place for the other eras, it's just rare for their to be a signficiant amout of unsettled territory left entering the other two eras.)

This actually happened to me going into the Industrial Age. Granted, I have tundra and desert flagged for no cities, so there's some open spaces left on the map. It was pretty funny watching the two hitpoint horsemen throw themselves at my musketmen. No contest.

Now I'm almost to Modern, and I think that camp is still there. Horsemen vs. Infantry

	17-01-2003 20:49									#16
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I'd recomend stationing some troops in unowned Tundra & Desert when they are flagged for no cities, especally if you've placed any colonies in them.

	23-01-2003 20:01									#17
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In one of my games, I had reached modern age when I noticed a small island very far up north, made mostly of tundra, which even the AI neglected. I placed a city there, then I got the massive wave of barbarians warning. My mech. inf. survived it with just one hit point left.