16-01-2003 13:01									#1
	Even if the US were trying to conquer Iraq euro style, I would support it. Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If the US was trying to make Iraq a colony, good for them! They would be part of a stable democracy with the right to travel and free speech. Nobody would be trying to exterminate the minorities in their country as Saddam is. Sure, the US and allies would gain the oil wealth of the country but do you think Iraqi people would see any of that anyway?

When the euros took over countries they crushed the people under an iron boot. Hell, concentration camps were invented during the Boer war and only perfected by the Germans later. These countries peoples are full of criticism over US foriegn policy but the forget that the US isn't the mass murderers when it comes to modern foriegn policy. We didn't instigate imperialism, colonialism. We didn't invade African nations or try to assimilate Algeria like the French. We weren't the ones who enslaved South Americans to work in gold mines like Spain and Portugal or gave small pox to American Indians like the English.

Sure, we supported people like the Shah of Iran but that was to contain the Soviets. Because of these efforts of containment eastern europe is free, the Russians themselves have basic rights.

Yet the european people have discovered morality all of a sudden and accuse the US of improper foriegn policy.

It's fairly funny, but we consider the source.

	16-01-2003 13:06									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Not to add to your obvious frontal assault, but did you know Britain kept Iraq after WWI for oil?

They also pioneered bombing civilians there to keep them in line with a minimum garrison.

Just an historical oddity that is.

	16-01-2003 13:07									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

The US and Europe need Iraq for bases. That's it. That's all.

	16-01-2003 13:12									#4
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I wasn't aware of that Chris.

	16-01-2003 13:16									#5
	Re: Even if the US were trying to conquer Iraq euro style, I would support it. Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Even better?
Let the Euros conquer Iraq - Euro style.
Of course, they'd botch it up and come running to the US waving their hands for the US to clean up the mess they'd made.
Then, as always, as soon as it was over they'd promptly disarm, forget about what the US had just done or why they did it, and start criticising them for not doing it more humanely and on US soil.

I think I'm joking...

	16-01-2003 13:21									#6
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ravagon, nope, you THINK, that's why you're now in deep w/ your fellow Aussietonners.

Nice to see you.

	16-01-2003 13:24									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just being a "discussion sponsor".

quote: Nice to see you.

Ditto.

	16-01-2003 13:30									#8
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Seriously, the US can never deal with the house of Saud as it needs dealing with without safe bases on the borders.

	16-01-2003 15:21									#9
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"We didn't invade African nations or try to assimilate Algeria like the French."

Well if the french had tried the US style in Algeria, they would have massacred at least 10 times as many natives, put the rest into reservations, and had no serious problems with independence movements....

	16-01-2003 15:39									#10
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Hersh, it was mostly early colonizers that did that...euros. Later, when the US liberated became independant it was again mostly euro immigrants that headed west and came into conflict w/ the Indians. The US cavalry became involved only when the euros got themselves into trouble encroaching on Indian land. The folks that were then considered Americans were mostly in the original 13 colonies and many opposed what immigrants who headed west were doing to both the Indians and the buffalo...

	16-01-2003 15:44									#11
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First the US ended the british declaration on the settlement limits ofter independence. Second the US claimed those lands and organised them as territories, later states. Third the US government violated or embraced the violation of virtually all treaties made with native Americans.

Conclusion: It's been the Euros' fault! (And I blame the yankees for the Boer war)

	16-01-2003 15:51									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

You forgot how Britian renegged on the 1783 treaty, and egged on the natives to attack the Americans in the period between the revolution and the war of 1812, a major factor in the US never again believing the natives would not keep their word.

	16-01-2003 16:00									#13
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Eh well, it was worth a shot.

	16-01-2003 16:03									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 You forgot how Britian renegged on the 1783 treaty, and egged on the natives to attack the Americans in the period between the revolution and the war of 1812, a major factor in the US never again believing the natives would not keep their word.

Did both sides really need that to confirm their mutual trust?

	16-01-2003 16:24									#15
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Um, Honduras and Nicaragua anyone??? That's what kept echoing in my mind to all the things said the US doesn't do.

	16-01-2003 16:54									#16
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What's a US style conquest like then?

	16-01-2003 17:14									#17
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It looks like this:

A socialist government is elected* with a mandate of nationalizing US owned companies or otherwise threatening US interests. They throw out the old officer/industry guys.

The US spends billions to first create, and then assist, an opposition that will take over the country and run it in compliance with US wishes. The oppostion is usually a brutal paramilitary with advanced weapons, intel, and air support, vs some farmers with AKs and machetes (who are ignorant, poor, and thus equally brutal).

*or threatens to be elected, in which the US backed Army must 'save the people from themselves' by taking over and doing a good ole disappearance of intellectuals and liberal-types.

Also, of course, those cases in which the 'socialist' government is just a bunch of thugs who called them selves 'Marxist' to get money from the Soviets (the case in too many African countries to count).

I suppose it is a defensible policy if you believe the US is this really great country that will save the world, and therefore it has to protect its interests at all costs.

	16-01-2003 18:44									#19
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I think I'll quote one of the American members of this forum with one slight change

"Yawn... gee, another Anti-European thread. How original. Yawn... I'll give it 0.00000000000000001 / 10"