16-01-2003 18:58									#1
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We do have in-game contact with Vox now? Did I miss something? If I did, then please ignore my next statement of the obvious:
You cannot trade techs without in-game contact...

Did they move a unit over to the edge of their continent and make contact?

Let Vox research Mysticism in exchange for our Iron Working or future acquisition of Horseback Riding.

It would mean placing allot of trust to give a nearby future adversary (with a huge industrial advantage) Iron Working, even if it meant we'd get horseback riding soon.

	16-01-2003 19:07									#2
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Current state of affairs: Yes, we do have in-game contact with Vox. They claim they are currently researching Iron Working as well.

	16-01-2003 19:23									#3
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We just got Iron Working...Admiral PJ needs to hammer out the agreement ASAP! Tell them to switch to Mysticism and we'll give them Iron Working when they're done.

	16-01-2003 21:05									#4
	Got spare money?

We are currently working on a fairly elaborate tech trading plan. Calc and myself fleshed out the details yesterday.

We trade IW to GoW for Horseback Riding (in 6 turns, when they finish it). We try to trade IW to Vox (who is also researching IW, and is about 10 turns away) for a future guarantee of getting Mysticism from them, so they can start on Mysticism sooner. We trade IW to Roleplay for Alphabet and 25 gold, and the deal goes from there (I'll let Calc explain it, I may have forgotten it again ).

We had the choice between three techs to research this turn: Mysticism, Alphabet and Horseback Riding. With Calc's suggestion, I reduced science to 0% (7 extra gold) since we'll be trading for all of these techs. We will then begin researching Mathematics.

	16-01-2003 22:41									#5
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Hmmm...why not give Vox Iron Working now....and let them start researching Mysticism now? We'll both get it sooner that way.

	16-01-2003 23:20									#6
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That =is= the plan, I guess.

	17-01-2003 01:34									#7
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Need more cofee :P

	17-01-2003 01:38									#8
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Need more "f"s in your coffee.

	17-01-2003 05:42									#9
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Trades (current and planned):

Trade 1:
LI gives Iron Working : Roleplay gives Alphabet + 25 gold (Completed 2470 BC)

Trade 2:
LI gives Iron Working : Glory of War gives Horseback Riding (6 turns)

Trade 3:
LI gives Iron Working (Completed 2470 BC) : Vox gives Mysticism (Unknown future date)

Trade 4:
LI gives Mysticism : Roleplay gives Writing (Unknown future date after Trade 3)

Trade 5:
LI gives Pottery : Vox gives 10 gold + 1 GPT (Now)

Last edited by Trip on 17-01-2003 at 08:08

	17-01-2003 22:56									#10
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REVISED PLAN AFTER DISCUSSION WITH BFM

- WE WILL NOT RESEARCH ANYTHING
- GoW will be persuaded to research mathmatics (we tell them we are doing mysticism)
- RP should be also encouraged to research something from writing tech tree, a tech that no one will be able to research at that point (so everyone researches different tech). Togas expressed that their members are discussing on if Map making should be their first priority or not.
-We can snatch GoW's chance to trade HBR to RP by giving RP HBR in advance. Then RP will be indebted to us and will give Writing once they are done. This will force GoW to take path into mathematics or mysticism. If we tell them we are doing myst, they will take mathematics (as we planned)

Current Tech swap schedule:
Lux Invicta: None
GoW: (horseback:6 turn behind) ~to~ Mathematics
RPwriting > 6 turns) ~to~ mapmaking
Vox Controli: Mysticism
Neu Demogyptica: ?

-----Future notes-----

To my knowledge, I think Vox Controli doesnt have warrior code yet. So we still have enough techs in our hands to play around in trades with them

Next assignment I am going to give for Vox Controli will be probably polytheism. We are guaranteed to make a deal, since we are so ahead in tech race, we can afford to balance the deal on their favor and still benefit and we have pool of many techs they dont have to work around the deal.

Soon Map making will be available. Do not trade world map. Vox Controli's location is our biggest card. Our might comes from us being able to control flow of information from Vox continent to Lux continent

Next Tech Round:
// (...) means assuming they recieved the tech from trade
// * means most likely?
//NDE is an uncontrolled factor that is un accounted for. Their choice of tech may unbalance the plan. If we can even control NDE's next tech decision....

Techs open to Lux Invicta after next tech swap session:
(math)--->Currency
(math)--->Construction
(writing)--->literature
(writing)--->code of laws
(writing)--->philosophy
(writing)--->map making
(mysticsm)--->polytheism
//flexible, as long as we can agree on trades.

Techs open to GoW after next tech swap session:
Currency
Construction*
(writing)--->literature*
(writing)--->code of laws*
(writing)--->philosophy*
(writing)--->map making*
(mysticsm)--->polytheism
//GoW's tech decision highly depends on whether they get math and writing from us

Techs open to RP after next tech swap session:
(math)---->Currency
(math)---->Construction
literature*
code of laws*
philosophy*
map making*
(mysticsm)--->polytheism
//continuing along writing branch = highly likely

Techs open to Vox after next tech swap session:
(alphabet)--->(math)---->Currency
(alphabet)--->(math)---->Construction
(alphabet)--->(writing)--->literature
(alphabet)--->(writing)--->code of laws
(alphabet)--->(writing)--->philosophy
(alphabet)--->(writing)--->map making
polytheism*
(Warriorcode)
//Vox Controli doesnt have much choice if they want to tech buddy

NDE:
???
//They can screw our tech trades if they research something before we get to swap around. Lets try to steer them to research something else as well so that we can trade with them as well, if not indirectly.

Last edited by Zero on 18-01-2003 at 00:53

	17-01-2003 23:18									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Trade 4: LI gives Mysticism : Roleplay gives Writing (Unknown future date after Trade 3)

Not correct. It should read: Horseback Riding for Writing. Some indication of a date is known (see first post).

	17-01-2003 23:48									#12
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We have a slight problem. Whether GoW gets writing or not.

Current situation stands as such.

We trade HBR to RP for writing, GoW does not get writing. Therefore only option is math or myst (competition)

They get Writing for HBR, but they finish HBR before RP. They will star on either myst or math if we don't tell them to pause tech research for 2-3 turns.

What should we do? Either way we need someone with REAL good diplomatic skills to manipulate the crisis.

And We NEED intelligence on NDE's tech plans. Just because we dont like them means we should cut off contact. If they come up with mysticism before Vox do, then our advantage is effectively cancelled out.. Someone try to sniff out information on NDE (GoW and RP probably has alot since NDE still friendlier to them)

	18-01-2003 00:44									#13
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We trade for HBR in about 5 turns, with GoW.

We ask them to research Maths - no one is doing that.

Then we trade for Writing from RP.

Hopefully, we can trade Writing to GoW for Maths afterwards, and so on.

In the meantime, we trade for Mysticism from Vox and hope that GoW and RP don't get too close.

	18-01-2003 03:00									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'll stay out of this one...just remember who our friends are, and who they will not be in the short term. IOW, don't give the farm to NDE.

	19-01-2003 06:45									#15
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I can try to talk with GoW, as i'm their ambassador, Perhaps we can pay them a bit of money to get them to wait before researching, or get them to research tsomething useless anyhow, and waste some of their money(good for us maybe).

I think NDE are interested in getting Iron Working, maybe we could tempt them into talking and trading with us for things by saying we might be able to give them IW. We don't want them to get it though, although someone else might trade it.

Perhaps we should try and make a stronger alliance against NDE. It may be useful in the rest of the game, to get everyone to ally against a player and when they are nearly beaten, we ally against another player and so go through each team by turn to eliminate them, and hopefully we turn out on top.

	19-01-2003 07:43									#16
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ND already has IW, somehow. So scratch that idea.

I was talking a bit with Ghengis Farb about our strategy as far as dividing up ND would go, but we didn't get far, so nothing has yet been decided.

	21-01-2003 18:39									#17
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I believe our pals, GoW have given IW to NDE. Either that or they researched it themselves. Which may mean that they are about even with us in tech.

	21-01-2003 23:46									#18
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GoW doesn't have IW yet. Roleplay does, but I think that ND had the tech before Roleplay did. So beats me how they got it...

	22-01-2003 02:05									#19
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They must have researched it...or possibly they have contact with another civ we still haven't found or guessed at a location for...

	10-02-2003 02:07									#20
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This thread is really cool.

Also, on-topic, I just added Legoland to the mix, now that we've started some negotiations.