17-01-2003 08:44									#1
	Ideal tech rate Full PM-box? Change here!

Hello guys,

I was just wondering if any of you had any suggestions for an "ideal" tech rate for a 240x192 map on Emperor or Deity level. Using the regular tech level I end up with nukes by the year 1500 even when I have an 8 turn min. for techs and an 800 tech rate for my map size.

I wonder if the game correctly guesses the size of the map when loading the scenario. For example, I change the tech rate for a "huge" map (specified as 240x192 which is the size of the custom map I made) but leave the tech rates for all other sizes as default. When I start a new scenario with my custom .bic file, the game does not ask for a world size since the map aleady exists. Does the game know what size the map is and applies the corresponding tech rate? I ask this because i think it is theoretically possible to make a map of a certain size, and then sepecify map sizes different to those of the actual map, how would the game know which tech rate to apply?

	17-01-2003 20:02									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I've found it rather difficult to find an "ideal" tech rate for different map sizes. I like the game pace to approximate the historical pace of tech progress. However, there are so many factors that impact tech progress that results can vary widely. For instance, using the same tech rate on the same size map, I had one game that all the Civs were still in the Industrial Age in the 1940s and another in which the Modern Age was entered in the early 1700s.

To answer your question.... I usually take the ratio of rate/size on one of the vanilla maps (or a map for which you are happy with the tech rate) and apply it to the map size I am creating. So:

New rate = (rate/size) * new size

Not sure about your second question; I would think that a scenario map would use the current tech setting for that size map supplied in the rules for that scenario.

	18-01-2003 00:14									#3
	Re: Ideal tech rate Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by raguil_79 Hello guys, I was just wondering if any of you had any suggestions for an "ideal" tech rate for a 240x192 map on Emperor or Deity level. Using the regular tech level I end up with nukes by the year 1500 even when I have an 8 turn min. for techs and an 800 tech rate for my map size.

There are two theories about this. The one I like is that the tech rate should be based on the number of tiles on the map. If you buy that argument then the next question is which map size would you like to mimic? The formula I use is

new tech rate = (old tech rate / old tiles) * new tiles

So to mimic the tech rate of a standard map when the map really is 240 by 192 I'd use a tech rate of 1105 (except you can't go over 1000 so use that instead).

The other theory is that the tech rate should be related to ONC (Optimal Number of Cities). If you decide to go that route the formula is something like

new tech rate = (old tech rate / old ONC) * new ONC

My take on OCN is

Optimal Number of Cities = (w*h) / (75*nc)

where nc is number of civs. If you were going to put all 24 civs on your 240 by 192 map I'd set ONC to ~26. Then you might set the tech rate to

(240/16) * 26 = 390

Note how close these numbers are (not very!). So pick a number that you like.

quote: I wonder if the game correctly guesses the size of the map when loading the scenario. For example, I change the tech rate for a "huge" map (specified as 240x192 which is the size of the custom map I made) but leave the tech rates for all other sizes as default. When I start a new scenario with my custom .bic file, the game does not ask for a world size since the map aleady exists. Does the game know what size the map is and applies the corresponding tech rate? I ask this because i think it is theoretically possible to make a map of a certain size, and then sepecify map sizes different to those of the actual map, how would the game know which tech rate to apply?

I know this was/is an issue on Marla's map. Despite its huge size it uses the values from the Standard Map (I think). I went into the .bix file for Marla's map and set the values to what I thing they should be for all map sizes so all sizes are Width 256, Height 204, Num Cics 24, Distance Between 31, ONC 43, and Tech Rate 1000.


Ithaca Mike

	18-01-2003 00:23									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'd take Stuie's one

	18-01-2003 08:26									#5
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

both theories seem interesting, I shall try them all out.

Thanx!