17-01-2003 11:45									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger What if this runs over half a page? As for the LAN/WAN bit, should I make it more detailed (such as LAN/WAN: server clusters, TCP/IP, IPsec, network security, Internet connectivity, etc.)?

I would say yes, supply details, if you are applying for a network admin job. And always list certain skills if you are a star at them no matter what you are applying for. You can also rearrange the order of your skill list depending on the job you are applying for. For example if they are looking for a security admin, then list "network security" first in your list. Remember that 5 lines in a Word document will hold ALOT of skills, but still look succinct.

Just use your gut feeling/intuition, and if it looks so long that certain points get buried in the whole thing, then you may want to look at it and see what is fluff.

	17-01-2003 11:49									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Sorry, I am not too sure what you affirmed - that functional resumes are considered dodges, or that they are supposedly favoured by the IT sector?

Well, I have yet to meet a recruiter that actually likes functional resumes, and most of them can't stand them. So I would say that the functional resume might be looked at as a dodge, but in my opinion I don't think they are favored, and in fact, probably the opposite.

What they do want to see is your skill set. What you are good at. In times like these, they are getting bombarded with hundreds of resumes, so they use keywords to narrow down the field. That's the beauty of that format I mentioned. If they are looking for an SAP guy, and the very first line in your skill list, says, "SAP," well then you made it through the first round of cuts.

Using the chronological format I mentioned, you can still show functionality by highlighting your duties and special projects/accomplishments you may have worked on.

	17-01-2003 12:15									#33
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quote: Originally posted by GP Also, realize that the resume isn't that huge of a deal once you get the interview. (I just got one today...)

How long have you been out of a full time job?

	17-01-2003 12:18									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker What they do want to see is your skill set. What you are good at. In times like these, they are getting bombarded with hundreds of resumes, so they use keywords to narrow down the field. That's the beauty of that format I mentioned. If they are looking for an SAP guy, and the very first line in your skill list, says, "SAP," well then you made it through the first round of cuts.

Understood.

Speaking of which, I can't say I like these cookie-cutter job fittings much. I wish more people look for fudamental problem-solving abilities and general experience instead of a skill set. Okay, maybe it takes me 6 months to learn SAP, but it will take them 5 years to pick up my problem-solving abilities.

Ah well.

	17-01-2003 19:08									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger How long have you been out of a full time job?

Over a year. But...I haven't tried very hard to find one. And I had two stints of working inside that year. Did a season as a ski instructor. And did a consulting job for a large chemical company the past fall.

	17-01-2003 19:12									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Understood. Speaking of which, I can't say I like these cookie-cutter job fittings much. I wish more people look for fudamental problem-solving abilities and general experience instead of a skill set. Okay, maybe it takes me 6 months to learn SAP, but it will take them 5 years to pick up my problem-solving abilities. Ah well.

In the position I'm looking at people are actually pretty receptive to hiring a smart guy who hasn't actually worked int eh function that they want. (They asked if I had done a purchasing study...I said no, but I had done a little pricing and that some of the tools I had used on other studies were pretty similar to what I would need for purchasing...and that I was familiar with the buzzwords. It's pretty plain that they are more interested in basic smarts than specific skills. IT is probably a bit stricter though. But still try to play that game. EVen if it just involves learning a few terms, so you don't have to say "what is SAP?" You can say, no I haven't done any SAP but I've done x. y, z which involved flowcharting, etc.

	17-01-2003 20:04									#37
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Thanks.

I know what SAP is, it is an ERP (enterprise resource planning) package (yee gish more buzzwords), I just have never used it. The funny thing is there are people looking for Siebel experience and IBM hasn't even finished making it. Like a wanted ad wants 10 years of Java development experience. Not even the inventor has that much.

	17-01-2003 20:04									#38
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GP--We specialize in PR, Communications and IR, and if you don't have at least 7 years experience in those fields, we can't help you.

UR, we generally don't like functional resumes, but we don't deal with technical folks. We don't care about objectives paragraph--we prefer a brief summary. Our ideal resume would look something like this:

John Smith
100 Main Street, Apt. 2
Pleasantville, NY 11111
(Home) 555-555-5555
(Cell) 555-555-5556
john.smith@email.com

[Please please don't leave off your mailing address. Many places still correspond via snail mail, and omitting this could end up being a source of frustration to the potential boss. It is a pet peeve of mine]

[Summary Paragraph (optional)]

A brief summary of your expertise and career goals. More than 3 sentences is too much.

[Work Experience]

List these in chronological order from most recent back. Clearly list the dates you worked, the name of the company, it's location, and your exact job title(s). Underneath, preferably in bullet points, detail your responsibilities, achievements and any relevant things you did that will, basically, look good.

I can't stress enough that the layout should make all the information very obvious and easy to find. HR people are notoriously lazy when looking at resumes, and if the information they want isn't readily available on the page, they will be irked. Strategic use of bolding, underlining, italics and indentations is a must. Don't make them hunt for information.

I wouldn't confine yourself to the last 10 years. We like to see all jobs held since graduating college so as to get a sense of your overall career path and development. Relevant internships are also good. But omit irrelevant jobs held in college and highschool.

If there is a gap in your work history (you took a year off to backpack through Europe or something), explain that. If, however, you were unemployed and looking for a job for a year, I wouldn't bother to bring that up...

[Education]

BA in blahblahblah, State University, 1998. Graduated with honors. GPA: 3.7/4.0

If you have more than one degree, also list those in chronological order from most recent back. Please don't put high school info or honors on it, nobody cares.

[Professional/technical skills]

Use bullet points here to list your various relevant skills (like, "MS Word," which I am sure you just love). Also list any foreign languages you speak/are familiar with and to what degree.

Again, don't go overboard with detail here. If certain things are obvious based on your work experience/education, you should omit them.

[Awards/honors/memberships]

If you have received professional awards, list them here. You can also list your membership to relevant professional organizations, important speaking engagements you have made, articles you've had published in periodicals/trade journals, books you've published, etc. All of this should be more or less career-relevant.

[Interests/hobbies/personal (optional)]

Personally, I like to see a little bit of the personal life of people on their resumes to give them more distinction. So if you enjoy rock climbing, chess, etc, list them. Use discretion though. If you have a really unusual hobby, it might be best to omit it. Such things may end up being a target of ridicule and make HR dummies think you're a weirdo. If you are married and/or have kids, you can list that here.

Things I'd advise to definitely omit:

-Salary information and requirements. Always leave this open to negotiation.
-Social security numbers. I'm amazed at how many idiots put their SSN on their resume. I would like to beat them all for being that dumb.
-Ridiculously personal information. One person we had sent us a web address for his site devoted to his quest to have the doctor who had killed his girlfriend put in jail. Subjecting HR people to such things raises instant red flags and will ensure you won't be called for an interview, as they will assume you are, at best, prone to bringing up inappropriate things in a work environment. At worst, they will assume you are psychotic.

Hope this helps.

	17-01-2003 20:06									#39
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Thanks Boris. My resume looks exactly like the way you described, but it's not working at all. Bah.

	17-01-2003 20:07									#40
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quote: Originally posted by GP Over a year. But...I haven't tried very hard to find one. And I had two stints of working inside that year. Did a season as a ski instructor. And did a consulting job for a large chemical company the past fall.

Good luck.

	17-01-2003 22:41									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Thanks. I know what SAP is, it is an ERP (enterprise resource planning) package (yee gish more buzzwords), I just have never used it. The funny thing is there are people looking for Siebel experience and IBM hasn't even finished making it. Like a wanted ad wants 10 years of Java development experience. Not even the inventor has that much.

UR, You can't let yourself be put off by stuff like that. Lots of those ads are written to have extremely ambitious experience requirements. And even a lot of companies know it. I wouldn't try to argue with them about their ads. But just don't be put off by them either. If it's a job you want and can do, go ahead and apply and assume "the rules don't apply to me." Having a little bit of a cocky attitude never hurts.

	18-01-2003 09:46									#42
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I ignore those all the time, but still haven't got many takers. I wouldn't argue about the ads - just think they are crazy. The way they heap on the requirements makes it hard to determine whether one is up to scratch.

	18-01-2003 10:12									#43
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I have a (mildly funny) recrutier story to tell when Boris gets back. Typed it last night and than dorked up and deleted it.

	18-01-2003 10:23									#44
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Urban,

Don't worry too much about those ads that heap on requirements. I agree with GP, even though you may not have the exact cookie cutter skill set, go ahead and apply anyway. They will appreciate your honesty when you tell them you don't know something, or tell them you can learn it real quick.

I think having 30% of the requirement is enough to get you in the door.

	18-01-2003 15:58									#45
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30%?! Wow... I need to re-evaluate the positions I apply for.