17-01-2003 11:35									#1
	FAM Report: Lost Alliance Got spare money?

I was just working on the orders for the next turnchat and became dismayed at the apparent fact the the Aztecs are FURIOUS with us and we no longer have an alliance with them vs Germany. We had 10 turns to go with that agreement.

I ask... Does anyone know what happened here? This appears to be a blemish on our spotless reputation.

Mss

	17-01-2003 11:54									#2
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Very unusual, I hadn't noticed this. I was present at the last turnchat for the majority of it until the end, and nothing came up about it to the best of my knowledge.

Hard to believe we overlooked it....perhaps Arnelos or E_T may have a better idea on it?

	17-01-2003 11:58									#3
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I will download the save again and check.

I never knew that something like that can just end. I thought it would take a peace treaty or a declaration of war, but it appears not.

I am planning on gifting them dyes for the next 20 turns to begin to build trust again.


Mss

	17-01-2003 12:20									#4
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quote: Originally posted by ManicStarSeed I am planning on gifting them dyes for the next 20 turns to begin to build trust again. Mss

By gifting you mean, as the word implies, a "gift"? Or a trade where we receive something in return?

	17-01-2003 14:01									#5
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I never noticed this, either.

Considering that I wasn't handling the save this time, that's not surprising.

Meshelic and E_T, did you guys notice this?

	17-01-2003 14:26									#6
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I don't recall this happening at all, and am just as surprised as both of you. I don't pretend to be an expert on foreign affairs; we obviously missed something though.

The only thing I can think of is that possibly we mistakenly thought the treaty lasted longer, when in fact it didn't. Althought that's pretty odd, and I doubt it as a serious possibility.

Alas, I don't have any idea how this happened.

Shiber? Dejon? Panzer32? Any of you guys notice anything about this?

	17-01-2003 15:42									#7
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I can't seem to be able to post a new thread (stupid Lotus Notes as a browser...), so I will hijack this one for a sec as its a FAM thread and I have a FAM issue.

I fear an attack by the Shogun (and have for the last three or four turnchats) but the possibility is now very real and dangerous. Japan has two Cav on the footsteps of an undefended size 12 city. I won't go into my yelling and screaming to defend our heartland (as I did that in the orders thread) but I want to bring up the FAM aspects of a suprize attack by the Shogun. One turn ago, all our size 12 cities were on the verge of disorder due to war weariness. We solved this by getting a new lux item and adding 4 happy faces to each city. We get one lux item from Japan (silk). If they attack, we loose that item and our size 12 and bigger cities are once again in danger of rioting (plus cities we drafted from).

I guess I just wanted to make sure that everyone was aware of this.

Thanks....you may now have your thread back.

	17-01-2003 17:02									#8
	Re: FAM Report: Lost Alliance Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by ManicStarSeed I was just working on the orders for the next turnchat and became dismayed at the apparent fact the the Aztecs are FURIOUS with us and we no longer have an alliance with them vs Germany. We had 10 turns to go with that agreement. I ask... Does anyone know what happened here? This appears to be a blemish on our spotless reputation. Mss

I checked the save and it's true. See this. We have an Embargo against Germany (9) and 66 gpt (10).

	17-01-2003 17:05									#9
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I started a new thread for you.

Regarding this matter, I haven't got a clue. I couldn't participate in the last turnchat due to RL.

	17-01-2003 19:10									#10
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I don't recall hearing anything about the Aztecs during the last chat. Very strange.

	17-01-2003 20:02									#11
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I have an idea. There's a bug in 1.21 that causes the human player to take the heat for every treaty that is violated - even if the second party has violated it!
Maybe the Aztecs signed a peace treaty with Germany, and now they're blaming us for breaking the alliance because of the bug (which explains their attitude).

	17-01-2003 20:42									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by E_T in the Trunchat now Thread Between Turns: The Japanese move to just outside Gotham (unproteced at this moment China & Rome sign a Trade Embargo against us The Germans & Aztecs Sign a Peace Treaty Boomtown goes into Civil Disorder (55% Peace Deminstartions) - Set to come back next turn Polution strikes Macross City #5 (a flat tile) The Palace is moved to Macross City Science slide had to be moved back to 90%, due to the loss of trade from Boomtown. Steel in 3 turns with 620LPT income. 5 Turns until the Iron Works are completed in Ferropolis 1 turn until Hoover Dam is completed in The Forbidden City. Turnchat ended. Here is the Save.

They broke the agreement, not us.

	17-01-2003 20:49									#13
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and From the Chat

quote: [23:35] [SMC_E_T> 4 turn ends [23:35] [dejon> Me too, I want to what Japan does [23:36] [dejon> *see what Japan does [23:36] [Aro> Same here [23:36] [SMC_E_T> 4 Japanese move to just outside Gotham [23:37] [SMC_E_T> 4 The Aztec & Germans sign a Peace Treaty [23:37] [dejon> Figures - go for the un-garrisoned city [23:38] [SMC_E_T> LOL, ad if they don't have problems of their own 4 Babs declairs war on Persia [23:38] [dejon> lol [23:38] [Panzer32> hehe [23:39] [Panzer32> that'll be an active battleground... [23:39] [Aro> Warmonger's Paradise [23:39] [SMC_E_T> 4 China & Rome sign a Trade Embargo against us (they are evil....) [23:39] [dejon> The Russians are being very effective against Babs [23:40] [dejon> sorry, are NOT [23:42] [SMC_E_T> 4 Pollution strikes Macross City #5 (flat) [23:42] [SMC_E_T> 4 Palace built in Macross City [23:43] * WaxTadpole has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [23:44] [Panzer32> yay [23:44] [dejon> Thank goodness that is over with - I almost hope we don't get another GL [23:44] [SMC_E_T> 4 Boomtown goes into Civil Disorder, Doh [23:45] [Trip> d'oh [23:45] [dejon> Oh bummer - the marketplace doesn't cover it? [23:46] [SMC_E_T>  [23:46] [SMC_E_T> 4 1320AB

	17-01-2003 21:17									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by E_T They broke the agreement, not us.

Yes, but according to what I've read about this bug I mentioned, we took the rep hit for their violation of the treaty.
Has anyone else heard of this bug in the reputation system?

	17-01-2003 23:26									#15
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Well that settles it .. they broke the treaty, now we have a blemish.... I was going to GIFT (that's give away without anything in return) them some dyes to help rebuild our rep, but not any more. I am editing my orders based on this.

As for the shogun, I will check into the new thread and chime in there.

Mss